DefinedMeaning talk:ehrpusselig (383195)
Ich verstehe diese Definition nicht. Wie sieht diese spießbürgerliche Weise aus? Andres 18:47, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- (I'll answer in English, so that others can follow as well). Today I read this word in the context of a newspaper article about university professors who write non-scientific novels. Some of their colleagues are worried about this and think that this isn't something a reputable scientist should do. The article called those worried colleagues "ehrpusselig". So, I thought it's a very interesting word and added it. :-) It's not easy to translate and I don't know if this concept or translations for this word exist in other languages. --Tosca 19:06, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- OK, but what is the difference between spießbürgerlich and other honour? Perhaps this word simply implies that the speaker thinks that people talked about have a false concept of honour. Maybe it could also mean an aristocratic concept of honour when one thinks that it is unjustified? Andres 19:17, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- In German a "Spießbürger" is a term for someone who is narrow-minded, who cares a lot about what other people think, who follows society's conventions and doesn't think much for himself. Like "ehrpusselig" it is usually used in a deriding or deprecative way. Bürger = citizen, so it has nothing to do with aristocracy and their concept of honour. --Tosca 19:51, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- I see. But my question is: how do you know that the word cannot be used for the aristocracy and their concept of honour? It is you who used the word spießbürgerlich. Or was it in the text? In some cases it may be as narrow-minded than the concept of honour in the professors. I think Schnitzler has a short story where he describes the sufferings of a man who didn't challenge the man who dropped his honour. And the protagonist thinks only about the reaction of the environment. Is it not ehrpusselig to fight in a duel for tiny causes for sake of one's honour? To follow the code of conduct of aristocracy, isn't this narrow-minded? We can deride this. Andres 20:11, 14 November 2006 (CET)
I browsed dictionaries in the web and my impression is that the word implies not caring about one's honour in a spießbürgerlich way but it is ein spöttisches Wort für sittsames Verhalten. That is, it our case it should imply that some people think that writing novels is a too leichtmütig activity. They are ehrbar und wouldn't do that. Andres 20:26, 14 November 2006 (CET)
Nicht auf seine Ehre bedacht, sondern "ehrbar", sittsam. You are right that this has nothing to do with aristocracy. This is why I asked in the first place. The definition should be clearer. Andres 20:29, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- I looked up the word in two dictionaries and both use the word "spießbürgerlich" in their definitions. For example DWDS: "spießbürgerlich ehrbar". Duden says "in spießbürgerlicher, übertriebener Weise auf seine Ehre bedacht". Simply describing it as "ehrbar, sittsam" doesn't quite capture the meaning of ehrpusselig. The concerned professors worry about what others might think. People behave sittsam and ehrbar because they think this is the right thing to do, but being ehrpusselig has an element of "what do others think about me?".
- That "ehrpusselig" is used in a spöttisch/deriding manner should definitely be added later on because it's important, but right now there's no way to indicate if a word is ironic, pejorative etc. --Tosca 21:34, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- I looked at the DWDS too. Probably you are right but look at this norddeutsch word along with its possible etymology in a vocabulary of Berlin words: . The good wording should be invented but I think it's too general to mention just Ehre because the word has different meaning nuances. One could think that there is a "honour of scientist" but probably the word "honorable" as in "a honorable man" better expresses the meaning: this is someone who "honestly" works, not dedicating himself to unserious occupations. I think this the core of honour here. Of course this involves what other people think but I think it also is a sincere personal moral conviction. Someone might say that this is narrow-minded. In itself the narrow-mindedness is always relative.
- And in principle, the authors of the dictionaries always might be wrong because they only imply the meaning from the texts and they have the same difficulties as we have. The best we can do is to browse web and look through many examples.
- In the guidelines it is said that the exact translations should be stylistically adequate. How one can know what is stylistically adequate when the style is not specified? Andres 21:57, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- The link to the vocabulary of Berlin words is very interesting, thanks. It's possible that there is a second meaning for ehrpusselig which is used in Northern Germany. That might explain why I don't know about it, I am from Southern Germany. You're right that Ehre is a word with several different meanings and connotations, and to make matters worse, the meanings and connotations differ between English and German and other languages.
- In cases like this it would be best to collect citations from several sources and then determine the meaning or meanings. I hope that the software will allow for this later. Same with indication of style. --Tosca 22:43, 14 November 2006 (CET)
- Yes. As to the style, my point is that if we omit style specification in this stage then we'll have to split the DM-s later. I don't think this has any sense. If DM-s depend on style then the style notes should be contained in definitions. Andres 07:45, 15 November 2006 (CET)
- Wouldn't be interesting to English translate at least the definition?
- Translation needed|deu
- --Ascánder 13:22, 24 April 2010 (UTC)