Two DMs for really one DM
This word is an example of problems we might face.
Usually, in English, the word neck means: the part of an organism (human or animal) that connects the head to the rest of the body;
Here, there are suddenly two DMs for a word that include both, because the English language doesn't really distinguish between these two senses. Therefore, I think that the DM for the expression neck should be: the part of an organism (human or animal) that connects the head to the rest of the body. That is what neck means in English.
But in many other languages neck translates to two words. When these different words are added and defined, English gains two DM for a word that is used to describe both DM, but that really is one DM. Get my drift?
In wiktionary this would be solved by:
Translations: Nor: hals (front part) nakke (back part)
Or like here, having two separate definitions.
But maybe this is not a problem at all, since, I think, there are many languages that makes this dictintion. A user on en.wiktionary once wrote about omegawiki: Such a multilingual project needs another approach to definitions than it is usual in monolingual dictionaries.
What are your thoughts? --Troskyldigheten 04:14, 13 January 2009 (EST)
- These concepts are different. The "hals" is all of what connects the head to the rump, the "nek" is only the back part of the hals. So they cannot be combined. Thanks, GerardM 08:43, 13 January 2009 (EST)
- I know, but the English DefinedMeaning is only "the part which connects the head and back", and not those two listed. But it translates to those two DMs, because they are more defined in other languages. I'm not saying this is a problem, but when it comes to a DM that might be translated to a variety of words in several languages, you might end up having many more DMs for a word that really only have one DM in that language. --Troskyldigheten 09:03, 13 January 2009 (EST)
- Not all DefinedMeanings take their origin in English. Also looking at your wiktionary example, hals is (at least in Swedish not the front part of the part that connects the head to the torso...it is the whole way round, the front part is strupe and the back part is nacke There is room in OmegaWiki for DefinedMeanings for all of these three concepts.--Sannab 11:39, 16 February 2009 (EST)
I want to add more, to illustrate my point better. Let's suppose that the english word was the first one to get a DM.
: the part of an organism (human or animal) that connects the head to the rest of the body;
In Dutch, then, you use two words about this part of the body. Why should both be listed under neck when only "hals" has the same DM? It's because "nek" is translated to neck, too.
Another example: In Norwegian, there's another word for "yes" used in arguing (the main "yes" is "ja": You killed it! No you didnt! Yes you did! Here we will use "jo", but in the sentence "Yes, I like apples", we'll use "ja". There will be one DM for ja and anotherone for jo. Both ja and jo will be translated with yes. The result is, for the expression "yes", that there are two DMs? What if "yes" got its DM first? How then, would you distinguish the translations "ja" and "jo"? --Troskyldigheten 12:33, 14 January 2009 (EST)
This article (neck) needs attention because:
It has been added to this category for attention. Thank you for your patience.
- The entered word/translations should NEVER be translations of the already listed Expressions, they should be the closest possible Expressions that match the Definition, if there are no Expression in the language, an approximate Expression may be used which then should be marked as approximate by unchecking the Identical meaning checkbox. If there are several Expressions in a given language that both fully match the Definition they should all be entered. If however the current Definition does not capture the difference between those Expressions, one or more new DefinedMeaning:s should be created that contain Definitions specified enough to capture the difference. The Expressions in question are then connected to these DM:s respectively. Yes, that means we will get MANY DM:s, as many DM:s that are needed to capture each and every Expression in each and every Language. --Sannab 11:39, 16 February 2009 (EST)
- I agree with Sannab. If the English translation for back part of neck is "neck" then at least it shouldn't be marked as identical meaning because it's not identical. Malafaya 11:51, 16 February 2009 (EST)