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User talk:InfoCan

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome + sorry for the open proxy thing... I have given you rights to modify existing data. --Kip 19:48, 6 March 2012 (CET)

Thanks. Familiarizing myself with the system now... --InfoCan 20:04, 6 March 2012 (CET)

Part of speeches, etc.[edit]

Hi, if you want to add annotations, such as part of speeches, to Turkish words, please tell me which one you need. e.g.

  • Part of speech: noun, adjective, verb, adverb?? , ...
  • Gender: Is there masculine and feminine in Turkish?
  • --Kip 09:28, 7 March 2012 (CET)

I've added the following:

  • noun (isim), pronoun (zamir), verb (fiil), adjective (sıfat), adverb (zarf), conjunction (bağlaç), prefix (önek), sonek (suffix), idiom (deyim), proverb (atasözü).

The following need to be defined first (i.e. correspond to a DefinedMeaning) :

  • verbal noun (isim-fiil), verbal adjective (sıfat-fiil), verbal adverb or gerund (zarf-fiil), particle (edat)

For "abbreviation" (kısaltma), we usually don't add it because we consider the abbreviation to have the same part of speech as the word/expression it represents. "AIDS" would be a noun, and "asap" would be an adverb. However, each language is treated independently, and as you are the main contributor for Turkish, I let it up to you to decide if you want to have it or not. Or we could also have both, i.e. classify "AIDS" as "abbreviation" and "noun" (since multiple part of speeches can be entered for an entry).

The same goes for "phrase" (deyim): there are "noun phrase", "verb phrase", etc., but if you want it, I add it.

In fact we have not really discussed that issue community-wide, so, how to treat these is still open. --Kip 18:37, 8 March 2012 (CET)

I'll work on defining the missing grammar terms. Regarding abbreviations, I don't feel strongly, but perhaps they should be annotated/categorized so somebody who wants to see a list of all abbreviations in a language can. You can ignore "phrase", I meant "idiom" and you already did that. --InfoCan 18:57, 8 March 2012 (CET)

I created verbal noun (isim-fiil), verbal adjective (sıfat-fiil), verbal adverb (zarf-fiil), particle (edat). Could you add them, and copula (koşaç) to the Turkish parts of speech? Also, could you please check my definitions for these terms? I wrote more than a definition for some of them, giving an explanatory note as well. Should that have gone someplace else? --InfoCan 19:09, 9 March 2012 (CET)

  • I added the part of speeches for Turkish
  • Regarding the definitions, your definitions are fine, but the explanatory notes should not be included in the definition, since we regard them as being rather encyclopedic, and the information is already in Wikipedia. For example for "verbal noun", we would just write "A noun that is derived from a verb by a defined grammatical process.". So the idea is to have concise definitions, and rather provide a link to Wikipedia for those who want to know the details. Also, people will then have to translate the definitions in various languages, which is another motivation to keep them concise... However, explanatory notes can be also considered as an "example sentence", and therefore you could add them there (somewhere in "annotations"... I promise that someday, the annotations will be more visible)
  • I am not sure why you considered two definitions for verbal nouns, since both definitions have in common "A noun that is derived from a verb" which looks like a good definition for verbal noun as well (I might be wrong, I am not an expert in grammatics) --Kip 13:05, 10 March 2012 (CET)
  • Thanks.
  • I moved the explanatory notes to example sentences and simplified the definitions.
  • Regarding "verbal noun" I clarified the definitions to make them more distinct. One is more general than the other. --InfoCan 00:08, 11 March 2012 (CET)

Translation of "annotation"[edit]

Now that you have translated it at translatewiki.net, it will get automatically commited to SVN (usually, this happens every evening), and I'll then run a "svn update" to get the latest version of the translations. I think I've disabled the "LocalisationUpdate" extension because it was not working.

And, btw, thank you for all your efforts :) --Kip 18:42, 8 March 2012 (CET)

Thanks to you for putting in so much work into this project! --InfoCan 23:47, 8 March 2012 (CET)
I have updated the translations. I've checked, and apparently, there are several messages that say the same (annotation), and therefore there are other messages that would need translating (sorry...), but you don't have to if you don't want to, since some of them will change in the future.
  • ow_DefinedMeaningAttributes - this one is for the annotations where hypernyms, images, etc. are (I'll change this one to something like "semantic annotations", but I'm not yet sure of the name)
  • ow_LevelAnnotation - no idea where this one is used
  • ow_PopupAnnotation - this is the one that you click to open the annotations on the right column. I'll either remove it (i.e. let just >> or <<) or change it to something like "show/hide". --Kip 10:15, 9 March 2012 (CET)
No Problem. I did them. --InfoCan 19:54, 9 March 2012 (CET)

Showing "nothing"[edit]

Hi InfoCan,

Welcome on board ;-). Concerning your question in IBP:
What about " " or better "‌" (the double quotes are just to show the effect) respectively &nbsp; or &zwnj; ClubFavolosa(TFD) 00:29, 9 March 2012 (CET)

Happy editing,

ClubFavolosa(TFD) 00:35, 9 March 2012 (CET)
This does not look like a good solution to me, it'll look like there is a bug. An explicit symbol, as proposed by InfoCan, would therefore make more sense (but discussion should take place on the Beer Parlour ;-) ). --Kip 09:32, 9 March 2012 (CET)

i I and other similar characters[edit]

Regarding Expression:I, it does not make much sense to have "I" translated in all languages. In fact, what is defined is the character itself in the Latin alphabet, therefore it should be just "I" in a language called "international language" (or in "Latin", I am not sure yet).

I see that you have adapted the definition in Turkish, and changed "9th letter" to "11th letter", but the definition should stay the same in all languages. If you have a definition where it is the 11th letter, then it needs another DM. So, for Turkish, there should be two separate additional definitions:

  • "I": The capitalized version of the letter "ı", the 11th letter of the Turkish alphabet.
  • "İ": The capitalized version of the letter "i", the 12th letter of the Turkish alphabet.

If you agree of course ;-) --Kip 14:32, 10 March 2012 (CET)

I Changed the Turkish definition to make it equivalent to the other defs, referring to the 9th letter of the Latin alphabet only. Definitions involving other alphabets can be created at a later date in an automated fashion. --InfoCan 00:11, 11 March 2012 (CET)

Turkish definitions[edit]

As promissed: http://www.omegawiki.org/downloads/dic/def-turkish.txt

There are only 138 different definitions in Turkish so far (cf. http://www.omegawiki.org/Special:Ow_statistics?showstat=def ), so it is normal that the file is small. --Kip 23:08, 11 March 2012 (CET)

Editing_Portal:tur/Türkçe_temel_fiiller[edit]

Is it normal that the page is called Editing_Portal:tur/Türkçe_temel_fiiller or did you mean Portal:tur/Türkçe_temel_fiiller ?

Since you know the admin tools already, and since OW is not a democracy ;-) I have given you admin rights, it might make your life easier. --Kip 20:01, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Thank you! --InfoCan 20:03, 13 March 2012 (CET)

foster-child[edit]

Could you check your definition in English at DefinedMeaning:foster-child_(1373244), there is something strange with the sentence. I think you meant "A child raised by his wet-nurse and her husband.", but I am not sure, so I ask you ;) --Kip 19:49, 22 March 2012 (CET)

Expression:foster-child has two meanings, the first one is what you are probably familiar with. The second meaning belongs to the Turkish expression "süt evlat". The translation of the definition is correct. I am reasonably sure that the translation of the expression as "foster child" is correct. Süt baba (literally, "milk-father") is defined as "foster father" here and süt anne (literally, "milk-mother") is defined as foster father here and also as the husband of the milk-mother here. I must admit that I cannot document a direct translation of "foster child" to the definition that I gave, but it is a logical deduction. There are quite a few Web pages where the terms "foster child" "wet-nurse" co-occur. I'll copy this paragraph to DefinedMeaning talk:foster-child (1373244) for future reference. --InfoCan 21:00, 22 March 2012 (CET)
Oh yes, I was careless in my typing. Corrected it. --InfoCan 21:10, 22 March 2012 (CET)
The typo is just what I meant ;) I trust you on the extra meaning. --Kip 19:21, 26 March 2012 (CEST)
Btw, I think that in English, the possessive "his" (not "its") is used for a child, but "its" is used for a baby. Since I am not 100% sure (I tend to mix some rules with German), I don't correct it. --Kip 19:23, 26 March 2012 (CEST)
You are right, of course. Thanks, I corrected it. --InfoCan 19:57, 26 March 2012 (CEST)

anonedit[edit]

I have added edit warnings for anonymous users, at the top and bottom of the pages. Tell me what you think. --Kip 19:19, 26 March 2012 (CEST)

I guess I just need to learn to pay more attention! But to make it really fool-proof, it would be good to have the warning inside a bright colored box like in the Eng-Wikipedia. --InfoCan 20:02, 26 March 2012 (CEST)
The problem is that we would have to edit the message locally for all languages... I am not ready to do that myself, but if you like, please have a try! The pages to edit are MediaWiki:Anoneditwarning, MediaWiki:Anoneditwarning/tr, etc. (you don't have to do all languages of course). --Kip 09:13, 27 March 2012 (CEST)
I did it for the most common languages. (Most common in terms of % of Web sites). --InfoCan 17:25, 5 April 2012 (CEST)

Swadesh list[edit]

Thanks for going through the Swadesh list. I have still not forgotten that you asked me to create a table to work offline. Just didn't have time to do it over the week-end. I see that you are changing some DM that are wrongly classified as Swadesh list. Should I wait that you've finished before generating the table? --Kip 23:06, 27 March 2012 (CEST)

Thanks, I seem to be doing fine without a table. My original problem was really caused by expressions having many DMs, such pages takes a long time to open when you want to add a new DM. The solution to that would be to create an "Add new DM" button to the page to create a blank entry without any other DM, similar to what you get when you click on the tiny "Edit" link for each of the DMs. --InfoCan 23:16, 27 March 2012 (CEST)
I am working on a way to accelerate the page load [you don't know because you just arrived, but I already improved things a lot in the last 2 years :-) ]. I think that loading an annotation pannel for each translation (right column) is what takes a long time when editing a page (both in terms of size of the page and number of sql queries). The idea is to load them with Ajax, i.e. only when they are clicked. "Add a new DM" is of course also a good idea, but I don't know how to implement it given the complicated structure of the OmegaWiki source code. --Kip 08:32, 28 March 2012 (CEST)
This may be naive, but can't you just add an extra blue strip to the bottom of a list of DMs, with no label but a small "Add new DM" link on the right. It should be equivalent to the blue strips that do have a DM and an "Edit" link on the right. Regardless, Ajax would be good to have of course. --InfoCan 14:26, 28 March 2012 (CEST)

MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.js[edit]

Did you find any solution on how to make gadget-popups work with short pretty URL's, where the gadget makes "/" in front of page names?

--87.104.90.184 01:33, 16 April 2012 (CEST) (ribewiki.dk)

No I haven't. :-( --InfoCan 16:18, 16 April 2012 (CEST)
Yes, the script has been fixed, it works here. --InfoCan 00:11, 17 April 2012 (CEST)

Re: revert a delete?[edit]

So that you don't have to check my talk page periodically, I put the reply here as well ;)

For DefinedMeaning:adess (6960), I have reverted the definitions and translations. Were there any class, collection, annotation? Couldn't find any, but maybe I checked wrongly. --Kip 16:38, 1 May 2012 (CEST)

Thanks. You don't need to bother replying in two places, I can see when you reply from the Recent Changes page. It is neater to keep the whole discussion thread in one place. --InfoCan 19:37, 1 May 2012 (CEST)

Visual dictionary + blog[edit]

Hi, when you feel that it is ok, I think it would be nice to write something on the OmegaWiki blog about the Visual dictionary project. Either you write a text and I publish it in your name, or I can write something, that's as you like. --Kip 16:35, 3 July 2012 (CEST)

Good idea. Let me think about it... --InfoCan 16:38, 3 July 2012 (CEST)
I wrote something at User:InfoCan/blog. Feel free to edit or expand it as you wish. --InfoCan 19:28, 3 July 2012 (CEST)
This is good, I think I can publish it as is (I just wait 1-2 days in case we think of something else that should be said). Thanks! --Kip 19:45, 3 July 2012 (CEST)
I just published it, thanks again. --Kip 18:56, 9 July 2012 (CEST)

Aunt[edit]

Hi, InfoCan.

Could you please take a look at DefinedMeaning:yenge_(1372601)? The English definition doesn't seem very specific (if right at all). Usually there is no word that could mean my bother's wife (sister-in-law) and my father's brother's wife (aunt) at the same time. The definitions should be split into 2 or 3 DMs (one for each kind of wife). I don't know if the Turkish version is right. Cheers, Malafaya 18:59, 3 July 2012 (CEST)

That is how Turkish dictionaries define it, but you are right, it is not suitable for Omegawiki, it needs to be split. I'll do it. Thanks for reminding me. --InfoCan 19:30, 3 July 2012 (CEST)
No problem. I was having trouble in adding the Portuguese word according to the English definition. I would have to add 2 different words/concepts. Malafaya 19:32, 3 July 2012 (CEST)
This is not as simple as it seems. English is not all languages standard, and that a notion doesn't exist as such in English is not enough to exclude a definedMeaning in OmegaWiki. I suggest you two read that discussion and participate to the discussion there, so that we be able to build a real policy. Other discussions on that page are worth reading too. --Fiable.biz 08:12, 9 August 2012 (CEST)
I wrote some thoughts there. --InfoCan 14:11, 12 August 2012 (CEST)

Critical bug in some languages[edit]

Hello. Would you be so kind as to have a look at bug 38739: since it's new, I think it is probably not too difficult to fix, and just prevents some peoples to use Omegawiki at all. Thank you in advance. --Fiable.biz 06:32, 9 August 2012 (CEST)

This bug seems to be fixed now... --InfoCan 14:11, 12 August 2012 (CEST)

Meta OmegaWiki[edit]

Hi,

I updated (rewrote completly) the page http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OmegaWiki, as requested by Sj long ago. I'd like your opinion, i.e. whether something should be added (or deleted), and in particular what you think of the section "Merging with the Wikimedia Foundation". If you can take a few moments to read the page, that would be nice, thanks :) --Kip 14:25, 24 October 2012 (CEST)

Hi Kip. Very clear and informative. In Turkish we would say, "eline sağlık!" ("I wish good health to your hand"). I made some minor edits and suggestions (as hidden comments), feel free to change or revert them for any reason. --InfoCan 16:32, 24 October 2012 (CEST)

API[edit]

User:Hiong3.eng5 is working on an API for OmegaWiki that actually works (not like the thing we had before). You said you were interested in an api, to do some stuff with perl. What functions would you need / what would you like to do?

Currently we have a function that returns the definition of a given dm, and a function that adds a translation to a given dm (or several translations directly by reading from a file). But this is just the beginning :D (It'll be online probably this week-end). --Kip (talk) 14:19, 22 March 2013 (CET)

Sorry for the late reply, I was busy IRL.
My idea was to enter translations from Wiktionary in a semi-automated fashion. You just did that yourself using JavaScript so I am not sure I still need to implement that in perl as well.
Regarding functionalities needed, ideally there should be functions that enable entry into any field. Some initial thoughts:
  • Semantic relations can be obtained from WordNet or other structured knowledge representation resources.
  • Global search-and-replace operations can be done to correct spelling errors in DMs.
  • Etymologies can be copied from Wiktionary. Perhaps your JavaScript solution for translations can be adapted for this task. But first, it would be good to develop the ability to assign multiple expressions to the same etymology entry.
All of the above should be done in a semi-automated fashion. I think at this point we should not allow scripts that perform unsupervised changes. One reason is that if the script messes up, it may be hard to rollback what it did. Also, I think the DM-centric structure of Omegawiki requires that a thinking human verifies each entry.
--InfoCan (talk) 15:04, 25 March 2013 (CET)
We have the idea to allow batch-processing (e.g. adding many translations at once, or many part of speeches, etc.), where the data to be uploaded would first be stored on a wikipage, and the bot would read that wikipage to upload the data. That way, several people could check that the data is correct before import.
In any case, modifying data with the api would only be allowed for bot-certified accounts. --Kip (talk) 15:05, 26 March 2013 (CET)

Visual dictionary[edit]

Good day, I just discovered the Visual Dictionary and this is an awesome idea. I suggest you think about making a quick guide explaining how to create new "dictionary picture" easily so more people could get involved. Thanks, Amqui (talk) 21:15, 24 May 2013 (CEST)

He wrote a guide already Help:Visual dictionary ;-) But probably this page should be made more visible if you didn't find it. --Kip (talk) 21:23, 24 May 2013 (CEST)
I didn't really look hard to find it to be honest, but I just assumed there wasn't anything else since there is no link at all from the Visual:Index page. No category, no talk page... maybe only writing an introduction on this page with a link to the help page would be enough. Amqui (talk) 21:27, 24 May 2013 (CEST)

Add new DM error[edit]

Weird weird... Did you use the button "add new dm" in the drop-list, or did you edit an expression page and add it at the bottom?

It could be that you didn't specify a language. Just a guess. In any case, we would have to correct the software so that this case is detected. --Kip (talk) 16:56, 4 September 2014 (CEST)

The "add new dm" button is a hack and has some bug... There are two pink sections. The second should be used (where one can indicate a language). The first one isn't supposed to show up, but doesn't know that. It is probably a modification that we did elsewhere which caused that. I'll look into it. --Kip (talk) 17:09, 4 September 2014 (CEST)

Welcome back![edit]

Nice to see you back at OmegaWiki! -向榮 /Hiong3-eng5/ (talk) 02:25, 11 September 2014 (CEST)

Thanks for the greeting. Glad to see you here too. -InfoCan (talk) 17:48, 11 September 2014 (CEST)