As an anonymous user, you can only add new data. If you would like to also modify existing data, please create an account and indicate your languages on your user page.

User talk:Kipcool/2012

From OmegaWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Allowed to change[edit]

Hello, I made Turkish translation of the home page. I know minimal English. I want to change the permission for the dictionary. Thanks --Incelemeelemani 09:54, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


Hello Kip. Thanks for your help.

Regarding Turkish...

There are no masculine and feminine genders in Turkish.

Turkish has the following parts of speech (Turkish terms in parantheses): noun (isim), verbal noun (isim-fiil), verbal adjective (sıfat-fiil), verbal adverb or gerund (zarf-fiil), pronoun (zamir), verb (fiil), adjective (sıfat), adverb (zarf), conjunction (bağlaç), particle (edat), interjection (ünlem), particle (edat), proper noun (özel ad), numeral (sayı), abbreviation (kısaltma), prefix (önek), sonek (suffix), idiom (deyim), proverb (atasözü), phrase (deyim).

Are declensions listed in OmegaWiki yet? Turkish is an agglutinative language, you can generate lots of words with combination of suffixes.

--InfoCan 16:24, 7 March 2012 (CET)

Ok, I'll see when I have time to add the part of speeches.
Declensions are not yet in OmegaWiki. We need a good programmer... For me at the moment, the question is still whether we store all declensions, or whether we store only rules that allow to generate the declensions. The second option is easier to store the faster declensions (except for too irregular languages), whereas the first option is better to retrieve a word by entering a declined form. A mix of the two systems is of course possible where you only specify a word and a rule, and the system generates all the declensions and store them... the problem is that which option is better depends on the language considered. --Kip 09:33, 8 March 2012 (CET)

How do I localize "annotation" to Turkish? I translated all three definitions of it but it still appears as "annotation" when the user interface is set to Turkish. --InfoCan 18:00, 7 March 2012 (CET)

I think "Annotation" is to be localized at The message is called "Ow_Annotation" --Kip 09:33, 8 March 2012 (CET)
I got translator rights there and made changes for "annotation" and "spelling". Now what? Do they have to export the changes, or do you need to import them? I was told by GerardM that the LocalisationUpdate process must be running here. --InfoCan 18:07, 8 March 2012 (CET)

In Turkish, the upper case of ı (the 11th letter) is I, the upper case of i (12th letter of the alphabet) is İ. When I define "I" am I defining the former or the latter? --InfoCan 18:14, 7 March 2012 (CET)

That's a good question... I'd say that it depends on the definition. But let me think a bit more about this... --Kip 09:33, 8 March 2012 (CET)

Hello Kip. I would like to see all definitions in Turkish, couldn't find a way to do it. I think it would be a useful feature to be able to see all words/definitions in a certain language, or with certain annotations. If it puts too much strain on the server to do it dynamically, perhaps you could do it as a daily/weekly batch job. For now, I would appreciate it if you could generate a list of all definitions in Turkish. I would like to see what other Turkish language contributors before me have done. --InfoCan 15:32, 9 March 2012 (CET)

Yes, I need to run some batch commands regularly to generate subsets of data for individual languages, and language pairs. For now, the only page to dynamically search data is Special:DataSearch but it does not do what you want. I'll generate it for you when I find some time for it, it should not be too difficult. --Kip 00:07, 10 March 2012 (CET)
Thanks for the list. Nearly all were mine. --InfoCan 04:07, 12 March 2012 (CET)


I noticed that "Affliction" was marked as an exact synonym of "disease", which is incorrect, so I corrected it. However, after this I noticed that "affliction" is still listed as a class, along with "disease". More importantly, "disease" is listed with "illness" and "ailment". This is not incorrect but problematic. Listing all synonyms of a general term like "disease" in the class list makes it impractical to use, only one term should be used. I am not sure what the criteria should be used in general for choosing one out of many synonyms as a class label, but since there are not too many of them, perhaps you could just do it arbitrarily for now. --InfoCan 16:24, 9 March 2012 (CET)

did you click all the checkboxes of "identical meaning" of DefinedMeaning:disease_(941), or is it a bug again?
If it is not an "identical meaning", it is normally not used as the name to represent the concept, except when there is no other solution. --Kip 00:20, 10 March 2012 (CET)
No, I clicked on only one box ("Ailment"). It must be a bug. --InfoCan 09:32, 10 March 2012 (CET)
In that case, we usually simply delete the inexact translation from the list of translations, since there are already exact translations. The "not identical meaning" is supposed to be used only when there are no exact translations available in a certain language. But I think I'll disable it in the future, because until now it has been more confusing than helpful (and there is this bug also that sometimes all checkboxes are unclicked...) --Kip 10:21, 10 March 2012 (CET)

Help:List of classes and Community Database class do not match? --InfoCan 22:42, 16 March 2012 (CET)

Some suggestion[edit]

Hello Kip. A few suggestions for OmegaWiki, I know you are bored and have nothing to do ;-)

I think the display of definitions for a given word, especially if there are many definitions, could be improved:

  1. Part of speech should be indicated (and DMs grouped by it).
  2. Topic could be given in paranthesis at the beginning of each definition, if it is available.
  3. Slang definitions need to be indicated (perhaps just make it a Topic?)

Also, I would like to suggest some additional annotation choices.

  1. "Commons category" is not very useful for abstract concepts, English Wikipedia categories are much better.
  2. There could be a "context" annotation, so you can indicate which definition is relevant. I am thinking of the way Oxford-Hachette ( is organized. For example, for the entry "profond" [1] some of the definitions are "[ennui] acute; [soupir] heavy;[sentiment, sommeil] deep". By storing such context words, OmegaWiki would be a better tool for computer assisted translation.
  3. I wonder whether you could implement some form of grouping for similar definitions. For example, "fly" has a general definition of "any insect belonging to the genus Diptera" and a more narrow definition of "a small winged black insect". In most dictionaries these would be numbered as meaning 1a and 1b, while "opening at the front of trousers" would be meaning 2.

--InfoCan 10:19, 10 March 2012 (CET)

Do you, by any chance, know php and Java? :D
These are good ideas, but hard to implement. The basic reason is that internally, at the database level, all annotations are equal. The system does not know that "part of speech" is more important than "international phonetic alphabet". So I have to find a way to indicate that, either with some extra fields in the database, or with javascript functions that would reorganize the page once it is loaded.
I have already some ideas in mind, but nothing yet that would be a clean solution at the moment. Sometimes I wake up with the right idea but not everyday ;) --Kip 10:28, 10 March 2012 (CET)
Sorry, just know some Perl and SQL.
I know you have many priorities. I just wanted to get my ideas recorded somewhere before I forgot them. :-) I hope you can implement them someday. --InfoCan 22:40, 10 March 2012 (CET)

Data dictionary[edit]

There are some fields whose function are not clear to me. Perhaps you could prepare a help page about them:

  • Approximate meaning
    • This was linked to "identical meaning". If you indicate that a word is a "not identical translation" of a DM, then if you consult that word, this DM will appear in a section "approximate meaning". (clear?)
      • Not clear. Didn't you recently remove "identical_meaning"? So now this field should be removed too?
        • Yes, but first I am waiting a bit, in case I receive well argumented complaints in favor of keeping "identical_meaning". Then, the next step will be to remove the section "approximate meaning", and simply the source code and the pages here and there.
  • Alternative definition
    • This allows to add definitions of the same concept from well-known sources (cc-by or public domain). For example, definitions from public domain dictionaries, or from WordNet can be copied here. But I believe that it would be better to give links to WordNet rather than copying their definition.
  • SynTrans:Annotations:idiom
    • I don't know, it was created by somebody else, but I don't remember what for. I just remember that it was not working as expected.
  • SynTrans:Annotations:grammatical property
    • I don't know... I see that there are some verb properties in there (reflexives, intransitives, ...), also created without me knowing.
  • SynTrans:Annotations:number OLD
    • "number" are for example singulare tantum and plurale tantum, i.e. for example words that are used only in plural form (I wear "glasses", I use "scissors") are called plurale tantum.
    • the name "OLD" means that I am reorganising the annotations internally. Instead of annotations in the expression called "lexical item", I am moving grammatical annotations to each language individually (which is why I had to recreate the part of speeches for Turkish)
  • New Exact meaning:plain texts
    • Hmm? Do you mean annotation? There is no plain text annotation at the dm level (but due to a recent modification, they show even if they are empty). At the syntrans level (right column), a plain text annotation is for example IPA (pronunciation) or hyphenation.
  • Annotation:translatable texts
    • same as above, it is empty at the DM level, but at the syntrans level, it is for example etymology, where you would like to write the etymology of an English word in English, but also in French, etc.
  • Annotation:option values:subject
    • It is the "theme" of the concept as can be seen in standard dictionary, such as: "chemistry", "physics", "geography", etc. This is what you suggested to write next to the definition.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that there is UMLS and Swiss-Prot data in here somewhere. Just curious, where are they? --InfoCan 04:13, 12 March 2012 (CET)

I removed UMLS and Swiss-Prot some time ago. If you remember the passage where they are mentioned, I can correct it.

I will try to write some help pages with more details, but I find that writing help pages is particularly boring... ;-) --Kip 15:57, 12 March 2012 (CET)

Thanks for the answers. I inserted one extra question above. --InfoCan 17:16, 13 March 2012 (CET)
Several Web pages mention UMLS and SwissProt in relation to OmegaWiki . You can see them in Google [2][3]. --InfoCan 17:38, 13 March 2012 (CET)

And also these lists? [4][5][6] --InfoCan 22:19, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Server error[edit]

For your information, I tried several times to make a change to Portal:cmn/HSK Vocabulary/Advanced (Part 2) (change its category to Category:Mandarin Chinese wordlists) but every time I got an Internal Server Error. --InfoCan 17:07, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Never mind. My change had happened but I was not aware of it and trying to redo it. The server should not be giving an error message though. In Wikipedia, when this happens, the Save happens with no complaint. --InfoCan 17:28, 13 March 2012 (CET)
Sorry... This happens since I changed from standard php to what is called php-cgi, supposedly faster, but so far I am not very impressed. I have tested various configurations, and I thought that I had gotten rid of that error, but apparently not (it happens when too many people connect at the same time). So I'll probably revert back to standard php. --Kip 19:42, 13 March 2012 (CET)
For the record: I have reverted back to the default php-apache thingy. --Kip 19:21, 15 March 2012 (CET)

Anatomy dictionary[edit]

Would the content of this Web site [7] be appropriate for importing into OmegaWiki? It has thousands of anatomical definitions in English, and thousands of synonyms in English, French and Latin. The data is licensed as "Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License". You can see the data organization at the Web client [8]. I did some work already to parse the XML file into a tab-delimited file. --InfoCan 17:54, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Hmm, many have no definitions, and I am not so happy with the definitions that I've seen. Rather than integrating dictionaries into OmegaWiki (which, as we have seen with UMLS, SwissProt, and Gemet, is more a mess than something helpful), I would prefer that each resource stays separate, and that we only provide links between the various resources, which is what dbPedia and other Web 2.0 websites are about.
As for the license, because of the dual licensing of OW, it is (normally) not possible to import resources that are only Creative Commons. However, usually a simple e-mail is enough to get the authorization to reuse their data. --Kip 19:51, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Image upload[edit]

Could you upload File:Turkishcoffee.jpg from Commons please?  ;-) --InfoCan 20:52, 13 March 2012 (CET)

Don't you have automatically upload rights with Admin rights? (I don't remember if I set it for admins or for bureaucrats). --Kip 16:23, 14 March 2012 (CET)
Oh I do, yes. I missed it. I did the upload now. --InfoCan 17:25, 14 March 2012 (CET)

Automatic part of speech annotation?[edit]

Hi Kip, I think it is fair to say that a verb is a verb regardless of what language you say it in, and the same goes for other parts of speeches. For synonyms/translations that don't have a part of speech annotation, could you just copy the one from one of the others belonging to the same definition? If you could do this through the database it would save much time for editors. You could also write a trigger such that every time an additional new synonym/translation is entered it will automatically acquire the part of speech annotation of the earlier syn/trans values. However, this trigger would have to be turned off if any of the existing part of speech annotations is ever changed by an editor, either because a mistake was made in an earlier annotation, or this word is lexically unusual. --InfoCan 15:51, 14 March 2012 (CET)

This is planned already... (somewhere in the list User:Kipcool/help_development) ;-) --Kip 16:22, 14 March 2012 (CET)

Batch data entry?[edit]

I find the system response to be rather slow when entering new data. It seems users could write faster filling out a spreadsheet in their PC and sending it to you for batch entry. I suggest that you create a page with wikitable of the Swadesh list, formatted like this:

ID Def (eng) Syntrans (eng) Def ( ) Syntrans ( )
7413 Biological offspring. child ! young ! offspring
810008 The digit "2" two

A user would copy this table into an Excel spreadsheet, fill in the empty fields and email it back to you, indicating for which language the new entries are for. You would upload it into a staging table, do whatever quality controls you feel are necessary, then import the new content into the appropriate tables. (Note that the table is not normalized, you will have to split the content of the syntrans filed using the "!" separator.) You may want to allow additional definitions in English to be inserted as well.

Would this be practical for you? --InfoCan 17:59, 15 March 2012 (CET)

Something like that would be of course possible if you think it'll be more convenient for you. However, last time a user wanted to do offline work and send it for integrating to OW, he just disappeared, so I'm a bit worried ;-)
I don't know how many users would be interested (as you've seen, we don't have so many active contributors), so, I can do this in the format you think is best, and for the data you want (i.e. Swadesh+Turkish), which will give me a basic offline-editing system that I could then further improve if more users are interested. I could probably launch an appeal to contributors for translating the Swadesh list in all languages.
What I am not sure of is why you want a wikitable. Is it not better with a txt file having tabulations? In particular if you want to import/export from Excel. Another possibility would be to use Google spreadsheet. As I said above, just tell me the format you prefer, since for me I think the time invested would be the same anyway. --Kip 18:27, 15 March 2012 (CET)
The reason I suggested a wikitable was that you wouldn't be doing it just for me and would not feel bad if I did disappear :-). The table would sit on an OmegaWiki page, and the next time somebody like me came to start their own language on OmegaWiki they could easily copy the table from their Web browser into Excel. After entering their material they would save the Excel table as a text file and deliver it to you by some mechanism that is suitable. Of course, I appreciate your offer to make it easy for me especially and perhaps a Google spreadsheet might work best for both of us. --InfoCan 18:54, 15 March 2012 (CET)
Ok I see, but a wikitable cannot be generic for all languages, since for some languages, there might already be some def or translations existing, and it would be best to have them appear in the table already, so that the user does not enter data that is already there.
Btw: do wikitable export well to Excel? (I don't use Excel).
So, next step is for me to generate a Google spreadsheet that looks like the above table? (just give me a few days) --Kip 19:01, 15 March 2012 (CET)
A wikitable is rendered as an HTML table in your Web browser. If you select the table, starting your selection just before the table and ending it just after the table, you can copy and paste the HTML table into a spreadsheet program (it can be Calc too) and you get all the data copied correctly as rows and column. Thanks for your help. --InfoCan 19:09, 15 March 2012 (CET)
Please include English example sentences in the document too. If they are missing I'll try to add them, and equivalent Turkish ones, too. --InfoCan 11:59, 16 March 2012 (CET)

Wiki gadgets[edit]

Could you make available here some of the JavaScript "gadgets" that are available in Wikipedia (my preferences -> Gadgets)? I find "Navigation popups" and "HotCat" to be especially practical. --InfoCan 19:35, 15 March 2012 (CET)

I have enabled the Gadgets extension.
However, it seems that each Gadget needs to be installed manually by
Since I don't know what the gadgets do, and since I don't plan to use them, I let you do the rest :P. (you can just put the two you use and remove the others from the list) --Kip 20:01, 15 March 2012 (CET)
I installed "Navigation popups" and "HotCat". You can select them in your Preferences:gadgets to see what they do. HotCats makes it easier to add Categories, you don't have to click on the Edit button and wait for the whole page to load for adding just a few words; instead you do it directly from the article page, at the bottom. With Popups you can hover your cursor over anything that you can click on, and it shows you a popup menu of available actions related to it. For example by hovering over the link "diff" in the Recent changes or My watchlist, you can quickly see what was changed. There is a problem though, there is something different about OW relative to Wikipedia, such that when I hover over, for example, your name, it shows me "/User:Kipcool" rather than "User:Kipcool" and if I click on it, it takes me to the nonexistent /User:Kipcool page. I just asked about this behavior at en:wiki, but would you happen to know what might be the cause? --InfoCan 21:40, 15 March 2012 (CET)
It's just a guess, but it might be because of the format of what MediaWiki calls "short URLs" ( i.e. instead of ).
OmegaWiki uses a different short URL, namely instead of
I have $wgArticlePath = "/$1"; --Kip 23:26, 15 March 2012 (CET)
This problem was fixed by the developer of this JavaScript tool. --InfoCan 00:11, 17 April 2012 (CEST)

Deleted wordlist?[edit]

Do you know why this page [9] was deleted?

It was not deleted, but apparently the saved copy was corrupted. I restored the previous version. --Kip 23:27, 15 March 2012 (CET)

Redirect to Turkish page names?[edit]

Is it OK to do a Redirect from Help:Semantic drift/tr to Yardım:Semantik kayma in order to make the page title more intelligible in Turkish? --InfoCan 20:24, 16 March 2012 (CET)

I considered that as well, but there are arguments against it:
- "Help" is a specific namespace. While it is possible to give several names to the same namespace, I don't really want to do it for every languages that we support.
- I use some specific extensions for multilanguage where, for example if you go to "Help:Semantic drift" and your language is Turkish, it will take you to "Help:Semantic drift/tr". At the same time, on the left, you have a list of all other available languages for that page. If you have a page like "Yardım:Semantik kayma", then you would need to create "Yardım:Semantik kayma/fr", etc. to have the same functionality.
A solution could be to install the extension . The URL would stay in English, but the displayed page title could be localized. What do you think? --Kip 12:43, 17 March 2012 (CET)
There are two issues, 1) a page name should be intelligible to a non-English speaker and 2) that page names are all stored in one namespace. The wikimedia extension Custom Title seems to satisfy the former problem but according to the documentation, "you have to remember that although different title is being displayed, you still have to link to that page using the real page name". So if people don't know the "real" name of that page, they wouldn't be able to link to it. The problem could be solved by using a template placed at the top of each page instructing how that page should be linked to. --InfoCan 16:15, 17 March 2012 (CET)
I reversed the change for "Help:Semantic drift/tr" until you find a good solution. By the way, I noticed that none of the Help pages in other pages have links to the English equivalent. For example you don't have "Help:Semantic drift/en", you have only "Help:Semantic drift". --InfoCan 21:48, 17 March 2012 (CET)
This is how the Polyglot extension works. English is the default, and therefore it is not at "Help:Semantic drift/en" but at "Help:Semantic drift". Since there is an automatic redirect to the user language, the English version is in fact accessed with "Help:Semantic drift/". --Kip 22:04, 17 March 2012 (CET)

Merging pages[edit]

I thought I knew how to merge the histories of two wiki pages but couldn't do it here. Meta:Main Page/tr had a history going to back to 2006, then recently Template:Mainpage/tr was created which has the required content and I wanted their histories to be combined. I deleted Meta:Main Page/tr, moved Template:Mainpage/tr to Meta:Main Page/tr and was going to undelete old versions of Meta:Main Page/tr but they are not visible anymore. Am I doing something wrong or is there something different about the setup here? --InfoCan 11:50, 17 March 2012 (CET)

I don't think it's important in that case to keep history, but anyway:
When I go to "Meta:Main Page/tr" and click "History", I do see the option to see and restore the 2 deleted edits. It takes me to the page .
And thanks for translating the main page! :-) --Kip 12:52, 17 March 2012 (CET)
I realize it is not so important in this case but I was curious. Meta:Main Page/tr previous version had changes going back to 2006 and these are not visible anymore. By the way, I am not the one who translated the Main Page, it is user:Incelemeelemani. --InfoCan 13:33, 17 March 2012 (CET)
Then I don't know, I'm not an expert at history merging. I don't think there is a specific setup for that as well, so it might be either a bug in MediaWiki, or something I've messed up in the database... --Kip 13:40, 17 March 2012 (CET)

Most of the Talk pages under Category:Definition needed have main pages that are deleted. Is it OK to delete these Talk pages or are they kept for a reason? --InfoCan 22:10, 17 March 2012 (CET)

It is ok to delete them. --Kip 22:18, 17 March 2012 (CET)

Lingwa de Planeta?[edit]

Is Lingwa de Planeta an "official" OmegaWiki language? I couldn't find an ISO 639-3 code for it, to prepare an outofsync notice for DefinedMeaning talk:a (7428). --InfoCan 17:02, 30 March 2012 (CEST)

You can find the actual code used on the page Expression:Lingwa de Planeta, under Collection. In that case it is "lidepla" (when no iso639-3 exists, we have to make one up...). --Kip 17:40, 30 March 2012 (CEST)

Conjugation script?[edit]

I am writing a Perl script that can conjugate a given Turkish verb, producing an output similar to the online conjugator at I assume that if the output is in the form of an HTML document, you could integrate it into OmegaWiki?

I first thought Verbix could be given as an external link for verbs here, but noticed that for Turkish, Verbix's is missing one tense and has various errors with other verbs. I don't know how good it is in other languages. --InfoCan 19:29, 30 March 2012 (CEST)

Actually, I am not sure where and how to integrate a language dependent conjugation script... I'll think about it. --Kip 19:32, 30 March 2012 (CEST)
I wrote some thoughts on this topic at International Linguists Beer Parlour/Inflexions‎. --InfoCan 19:07, 31 March 2012 (CEST)
The main problem is how to code that, because the php code is language independent (I cannot write "if Turkish then add link to conjugation"), so I have to find a way to put that language-dependent information somewhere with an interface (i.e. have an interface where I can say that "script X" can be used when we have "language Y" and "part of speech Z"), and store it in the database. --Kip 19:17, 31 March 2012 (CEST)
You could implement it the same way you store external links (like to Wikipedia) for SynTranses: You could have a "Conjucation" annotation that has a link to something like . --InfoCan 20:07, 31 March 2012 (CEST)


Hello Kip, could you please enable the <ref></ref> and <references/> notation to create footnotes, as it is implemented in Wiktionary and Wikipedia? --InfoCan 20:36, 5 April 2012 (CEST)

It should work now [1]. --Kip 17:25, 6 April 2012 (CEST)


  1. I think
Thanks Kip! --InfoCan 16:52, 10 April 2012 (CEST)

Abusive user: Grawp[edit]

Had you left me being admin, had I been able to block User:Grawp (now blocked) and repair the damage (s)he caused (not repaired), see: Special:Contributions/Grawp --Purodha Blissenbach 01:47, 6 April 2012 (CEST)

The mess has been cleaned up. The question is: why a new account was able to move pages? Answer: because it's autoconfirmed. The next question is: why is it autoconfirmed right after creation, and unlike what is stated in Meta:Autoconfirmed users? This should be fixed. Malafaya 02:38, 6 April 2012 (CEST)
Quick note: according to the MediaWiki manual, the variable $wgAutoConfirmAge is in seconds since account creation. So, 4 days = 4 * 24 * 60 * 60 = 345600 seconds. Malafaya 02:46, 6 April 2012 (CEST)
It is simply that the default value of $wgAutoConfirmAge is 0. --Kip 10:03, 6 April 2012 (CEST)
Thanks for this information. I've changed it in several wikis that I am responsible for. --Purodha Blissenbach 14:17, 6 April 2012 (CEST)

revert a delete?[edit]

Welcome back, hope you had a good time :-)

I just merged DefinedMeaning:yet_(5936) and DefinedMeaning:adess (6960), both about "now", thinking that they were redundant, but then realized that one is an adverb ("Now I am six years old") and the other is a noun ("There is no better time than now"). Is there an easy way to revert the changes or do I need to recreate each field? --InfoCan 18:05, 27 April 2012 (CEST)

Thanks, I had a good time. Still not totally back in mind ;-)
There is no (i.e. not yet) an interface for this, but the database is already structured in a nice way (i.e. reverts where already planned when the database was conceived), so that it can easily be performed with a sql query, and restored with the names of the initial contributors. I will try to do that somewhere tomorrow. --Kip 22:29, 27 April 2012 (CEST)
It is a bit less easy than expected in that I have to guess what was removed, each being in a separate database table.
So far, I have reverted the definitions and translations.
Were there any class, collection, annotation? Couldn't find any, but maybe I checked wrongly. --Kip 16:35, 1 May 2012 (CEST)
Thanks. I don't remember there being any annotations. --InfoCan 19:35, 1 May 2012 (CEST)


Hi. What do you think of the idea of having clickable images like this which would take you to various DM pages? You would need to install the MediaWiki ImageMap extension [10]. --InfoCan 16:22, 30 April 2012 (CEST)

And I suppose such pages would need to be in a dedicated namespace. --InfoCan 17:40, 30 April 2012 (CEST)
The idea is great, but I am not sure about how to implement it. I think this should be discussed in the beer parlour to have more opinions. --Kip 12:08, 1 May 2012 (CEST)

DefinedMeaning:wife (5463)[edit]

DefinedMeaning:wife (5463) is actually about "mother". Is it OK if I move the page name to [[DefinedMeaning:mother (5463)], or would that break the relationship between the OmegaWiki and MediaWiki databases ? --InfoCan 14:55, 2 May 2012 (CEST)

No, that will not work. In the future, the DefinedMeaning pages will be identified only by numbers because of that. I have already written the code for that, I just have to apply the code to OmegaWiki and move the pages in the database. --Kip 11:00, 3 May 2012 (CEST)

Alternative definitions do not display[edit]

I started entering Wiktionary definitions into the Alternative Definition field. Could you enable the display of that field please? --InfoCan 17:30, 4 May 2012 (CEST)

Probably a bug. Could you give me an example of a word where you added an Alternative definition? --Kip 19:41, 4 May 2012 (CEST)
For example DefinedMeaning:grass_(1675). It is there but you need to click on the triangle. --InfoCan 21:49, 4 May 2012 (CEST)
Clicking on the triangle is the expected behavior...
Do you mean that you'd like to have it opened by default?
In the past we had a cookie that stored user preferences concerning what sections are opened / closed, but it stopped functioning (probably due to a change I made). Maybe I could fix that. --Kip 00:09, 5 May 2012 (CEST)
I think all available information in an entry should be displayed by default. Since most entries don't have an alternative def field filled in, people would not think of clicking on the triangle normally. --InfoCan 12:43, 5 May 2012 (CEST)

Error is calculation of statistics[edit]

The number of DMs in Turkish appears to be 3688 in the Statistics page. This must be in error because I have entered nearly all the Turkish DMs and my contribution number is about half of this. --InfoCan 19:02, 4 May 2012 (CEST)

A DM is counted only if it has a translation, no definition is needed. I don't think the statistics are wrong, there were already several Turkish words in OW before you arrived (about 2000 seems like a correct number). The number of definitions in Turkish, 793 [11], is indeed smaller and was close to 0 before you arrived. --Kip 19:41, 4 May 2012 (CEST)
OK, I understand. Thanks. --InfoCan 21:49, 4 May 2012 (CEST)

corrupt entry:[edit]

Is DefinedMeaning:Definition_(401991) a corrupted entry? There is no Edit tab, just a Create tab. --InfoCan 21:55, 4 May 2012 (CEST)

and DefinedMeaning:Relation_(401999) too? --InfoCan 21:59, 4 May 2012 (CEST)
Indeed, there was a bug in one of my maintenance scripts. Fixed now. --Kip 00:06, 5 May 2012 (CEST)

Hi. Is this [12] a bug? --InfoCan 21:39, 18 May 2012 (CEST)

Yes, it is one of those listed at that need to be corrected in the database. --Kip 22:31, 18 May 2012 (CEST)
And I still have to answer all your other discussions... ;-) --Kip 22:31, 18 May 2012 (CEST)

Wallon, bonjour et questions[edit]


Merci pour l'accueil.

Je suis content de trouver ce projet, il réponds en très grande partie à des projets que j'avais en tête mais jamais concrétisés à cause de la complexité de l'infrastructure nécessaire.

Là j'ai un peu exploré, mais il me reste encore beaucoup à découvrir.

Quelques petites questions si tu veux bien:

  • comment faire pour avoir accès aux "part of speech" ? il faut en faire la liste soi même et la mettre quelque part?

Pour le wallon c'est à peu près pareil qu'en français, avec un plus des classiques substantifs masculin et féminin, une classe "bikebok" (litt: hermaphrodite) pour les mots, peu nombreux mais quand même pas négligeables, dont le genre grammatical peut être aussi bien l'un que l'autre.

  • comment sont gérés justement les relations de genre et de nombre? il faut faire une entrée pour chaque cas? et pour les acceptions qui n'existent réellement que pour un cas (ex: Expression:amoureus signifie amoureux, mais on le dit aussi pour une terre prête à être ensemencée; mais dans ce cas la, comme "tere" es féminin, on n'aura jamais que Expression:amoureuse. Faut-il effacer la définition avec ce sens attachée à "amoureus"?, comment faire pour que "amoureuse" soit aussi rattaché au sens 1 de "amoureus" ?)
  • les élisions. en français c'est assez limité à quelques petits mots genre article, pronom, généralement d'une syllabe. mais en wallon une très grande partie du lexique a une variation de sa première syllabe, avec voyelle élidable; eg: li scole (l'école), ene sicole (une école) (et en plus, dans le premier cas, il existe aussi une forme avec voyelle placée devant: l' escole); kibate, cobate, cbate (combattre), etc. ces 2 ou parfois 3 formes ne sont que des variations liées à la phonologie de la phrase, mais non à la grammaire ni au sens. ce serait pratique de pouvoir créer des entrées duales ou triales, de façon à considérer les trois variations comme une seule et même entité. Je suppose que d'autres langues ont des cas similaires (je pense par exemple à la variation de consonne du breton)
  • est-il prévu d'inclure des phrases d'exemple, et des expressions type?
  • et enfin, comment sont gérées les variations de système orthographique (problème plutôt épineux en wallon; mais c'est aussi le cas, dans une moindre mesure, pour des langues s'écrivant avec des alphabets différents); là aussi, traiter les différentes formes comme des "expressions" tout à fait indépendantes est un gaspillage de ressources; il faudrait pouvoir rattacher une expression à une autre, plutôt qu'à une sens défini, lorsqu'il ne s'agit que de variantes de forme visuelle.

merci beaucoup


merci pour la réponse

sur le wictionary wallon il y a des modèles pour les types grammaticaux suivants (ceux en italique n'ont pas d'équivalent direct dans la liste de types que tu m'as donné pour le français; il s'agit en fait d'un type donné à un ensemble de plusieurs mots, qui se comportent de façon distincte aux mots séparés):

Su (sustantif)
NP (no prôpe)
nom propre
Vi (viebe)
Addj (addjectif)
locution adjectivale
Adv (adviebe)
locution adverbiale
Adjo (adjondrece)
conjoction (c'est ça le "mot de liaison"?)
Div (divancete)
Dtire (divancetire)
locution à valeur prépositionelle (eg: tant ki)

pour les types suivants, je n'ai pas vu de modèle sur le wiktionary, mais sur l'esplicant motî on les a pris en compte (såf ceux en italique):

article défini
definixhant årtike
article indéfini
nén definixhant årtike
etrocla (je suppose qu'il s'agit de trucs comme à+le => au)
on distingue betchete (prefixe) et cawete (suffixe)
euh, ça englobe en fait article, adjectif et adverbe, non?

il y avait sur l'explicant motî aussi les types suplementaires suivants:

ainsi qu'une spécification plus détaillée (qui devrait pour bien faire être implementée par arborescence, de même que pour article qui devrait englober les articles définis et indéfinis):
no addjectivrece
no eployî come addjectif (nom utilisé comme adjectif, modele: il est tchén, il est efant)
no d' plaece (toponyme)
no d' djin (anthroponyme)
femrin no (nom féminin)
femrin no todi pluriel (idem au féminin)
omrin no (nom masculin)
omrin no todi pluriel (nom masculin n'existant qu'au pluriel)
omrin et femrin no (nom masculin et son féminin)
no bikebok
(nom pouvant être utilisé aux deux genres)
v. a spitron
(verbe à particule (djus, voye, foû, hoûte))
viebe a coplemint (verbe transitif)
viebe a coplemint direk. (verbe transitif direct)
viebe a coplemint nén direk (verbe transitif indirect).
viebe a prono (verbe pronominal)
viebe a prono sins coplemint
viebe a prono avou on coplemint nén direk
viebe sins coplemint (verbe intransitif)
v. sins djin
(verbe impersonnel)

ces types la incluent dans un condensé le type grammatical proprement dit, mais aussi le genre, et le nombre. En fait c'est la pratique dans les dictionnaires papier, ce n'est que dans les bases de données qu'on sépare à ce point les formes et les concepts; c'est à la fois une bonne chose, car ça permets une plus grande flexibilité, mais il faudrait je pense prévoir quelque chose pour relier ensemble les flexions (actuellement on pourrait croire que le français serait comme le chinois, sans variation de genre ni de nombre, si on se réfère à l'interface des wiktionary et d'omegawiki). comme ces concepts de type,genre et nombre sont très intimement liés, je crois qu'une bonne solution serait, dans la liste des choix possibles pour classifier une expression, d'avoir des choix agglutinés (par derrière ce seraient les concepts atomiques qui seraient marqués sur la base de données, mais pour l'utilisateur ce serait bien plus simple).

Et aussi, aussi bien pour ce problème de flexion de genre, nombre mais aussi de contexte phonique, d'avoir, pour une expression+langue+type donnée (donc indépendamment des sens) avoir une liste des flexions possibles, avec des catégorisations pour chaque flexion (féminin singulier, féminin pluriel, derrière voyelle, devant consonne, etc). Il faut que ce soit expression+langue+type car les flexions pourraient être différentes selon le type grammatical; c'est le cas en wallon, un substantif peut avoir 4 formes, mais un adjectif 5 (l'adjectif féminin pluriel a une finale différente quand il se place devant ou derrière le déterminé). Enfin, à chaque forme (flexion) écrite suivant le système standard de la langue, pourraient s'ajouter des variantes graphiques. L'idée est de ne pas lier inutilement des définitions, exemples etc à ces variantes.

Enfin, les expressions types, c'est des expressions, plus ou moins figées, dont le sens est parfois assez éloigné de celui du mot de départ. par exemple, pour le mot "clå" (clou) il existe une expression "esse pindou a on clå" (être pendu à un clou) qui signifie être aux ordres, être la boniche de quelqu'un.



Following our discussion about "egg", I created DefinedMeaning:egg_(1388243) to replace DefinedMeaning:egg_(1100). There are lots of translations to transfer, is this something you can do easily from the database? --InfoCan 20:15, 7 June 2012 (CEST)

If DefinedMeaning:egg_(1388243) is supposed to replace DefinedMeaning:egg_(1100), why did you not just change the definition of DefinedMeaning:egg_(1100)? (maybe there is something I've not understood).
 :-) Of course! --InfoCan 23:49, 7 June 2012 (CEST)
As for working with the database, moving translations from one DM to the other is something that is easy. Copying translations needs a bit more work but is also possible. --Kip 22:14, 7 June 2012 (CEST)

For this definition of egg, "In terms such as good egg, bad egg, tough egg etc., a person, fellow", is there a way to add internal links to other DMs? --InfoCan 16:34, 8 June 2012 (CEST)

Yes and no... A link to another DM is possible. However, what you'd like here is a link to a Syntrans (a specific expression of that DM, because maybe there are other English synonyms for that DM which have nothing to do with eggs). The software is supposed to allow links to Syntrans, however, previous experiments have shown that this is actually buggy. So, the software needs to be fixed before it works. --Kip 17:52, 8 June 2012 (CEST)

Mail address as discussed in Beer Parlour[edit]

Hi Kip,

Remember my question regarding special mail addresses for OmegaWikiUsers (or only Admins?) in the Beer Parlour? I found something that might be of help: SquirrelWebMail for Debian. Don't know if it's easy.
Sorry for my late reply, been busy IRL. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Klaas V 19:07, 19 June 2012 (CEST)
This is a webmail, where your mail would be stored on the server. I think the best solution would be simply to have a mail forwarder, where would only transfer messages to another address. I tried to set up one, but it did not work. --Kip 20:14, 19 June 2012 (CEST)
Great idea, automatic forwarding. You need all addresses or you can see them? Klaas V 03:25, 23 June 2012 (CEST)
If it worked, I would need the addresses, but at the moment it does not work, and I don't want to spend too much time on this, there are more important things to do (like for now: "have breakfast"). --Kip 09:31, 23 June 2012 (CEST)
You're right. Everything in fact is more important than OmegaWiki, our great hobby for which we could be respected more than seems to be the case...
Cheers, Klaas V 15:00, 11 July 2012 (CEST)

Organization of language versions of pages[edit]

Hi Kip, I think the Category pages need some organization, I have several questions. 1) Which form is correct: Help:DefinedMeaning/he of Help:DefinedMeaning/heb? Is it okay to categorize them under Category:OmegaWiki/heb (or .../he)? 2) To simpllify such category pages, would it be okay to create a category called Category:OmegaWiki pages by language? 3) If yes, would Category:OmegaWiki (the category for the English language versions) be a member of Category:OmegaWiki pages by language or vice-versa? --InfoCan 19:01, 22 June 2012 (CEST)

It is "Help:DefinedMeaning/he", because the extensions responsible for multilingualism are using the "MediaWiki codes", which normally are the ISO639-2 codes (and 639-3 when no 639-2 exists)
The categories where created before we installed these extensions. At that time, we used the 3-letter codes always. Thus we have Category:OmegaWiki/heb, but we could change it to Category:OmegaWiki/he for uniformity (and also I think that most of the people are more familiar with the 2-letter codes), unless someone finds a way to have the multilingualism extensions (Polyglot, etc.) work with 3-letter codes.
2 => yes if you like, but I think the current page Category:OmegaWiki is supposed to be that. So we could just rename it, instead of adding an extra hierarchical level.
3 => We have already a Category:OmegaWiki/eng which is almost empty, but I think it is the right idea to have it as a subcategory of Category:OmegaWiki (or "OmegaWiki pages by language"). Whenever possible, we want to have English treated the same as any other language, and not as the central language.
So, I think the best would be to rename Category:OmegaWiki to Category:OmegaWiki pages by language (not sure if there is a tool for that... I am not sure whether pywikipedia works on that wiki), and move the English pages to Category:OmegaWiki/eng.

Hi, I noticed that none of the Meta: namespace pages are currently cataloged. Is it OK that they are cataloged under the Category:OmegaWiki/xx tree, where xx is the language code? For example, under Category:OmegaWiki main pages/fr or Category:OmegaWiki word of the day archives/en.--InfoCan 16:23, 28 June 2012 (CEST)

Yes, it is ok if you want to do that. Thanks for all the time invested. --Kip 20:37, 28 June 2012 (CEST)


I don't understand: Visual:bicycle has an language link in the left column to its Turkish version, but not to is French version. Visual:bicycle/tr and Visual:bicycle/fr do have links to the other two languages as they should. Why? --InfoCan 14:16, 29 June 2012 (CEST)

Apparently a problem with cache. I did a purge (by consulting the page "" ) and now it seems to be correct. --Kip 14:22, 29 June 2012 (CEST)

Polyglot extension for Category pages[edit]

Doesn't the Polyglot work on Category pages? If you have Category:OmegaWiki help/fr, why is it that you don't see the equivalents of this page in other languages in the left column? It seems it would be logical to have it that way. Then, you could have separate language-specific category trees, rooted under Category:OmegaWiki, Category:OmegaWiki/fr, Category:OmegaWiki/de, etc., and then these pages would be made subcategories of Category:Main (or something like that). --InfoCan 23:21, 3 July 2012 (CEST)

According to , by default category pages are not affected by Polyglot, but this can be changed. --Kip 08:32, 4 July 2012 (CEST)
If we accept the premise that English should not be a privileged language at OmegaWiki (other than the fact that MediaWiki assumes it to be the default installation language), it would seem to me that the Polyglot extension should be applied to as much of the interface as possible. If we have the [[Help:...]] pages translated to (potentially) all languages, this suggest that the rest of OmegaWiki can also be created in parallel structures for every language. Thus, if there is a Visual:bicycle/fr page categorized under Category:Technology imagemaps/fr, then to mechanism that allows one to switch from Visual:bicycle/fr to Visual:bicycle/tr should also be available to switch from Category:Technology imagemaps/fr to Category:Technology imagemaps/tr. If you are in agreement with me up to this point, then it seems logical to me that all these Category pages should have at their root (for English pages),,, etc. Vertical navigation between pages within a language group would be done via the Category pages, lateral navigation between different language versions of the same page would be done via the language links in the left column. To make English even less favored in the interface, you could set $wfPolyglotFollowRedirects to TRUE, so that for example Meta:Main_Page/fr could have a redirect to OmegaWiki:Accueil_principal. What do you say? --InfoCan 22:39, 4 July 2012 (CEST)
I was ok already for categories, I just did not take the time to do it ;)
"$wfPolyglotFollowRedirects to TRUE" was already considered, but it creates several difficulties. One of them is that you would have to create OmegaWiki:Accueil_principal/en, OmegaWiki:Accueil_principal/de, ... to sill have access to other language versions from the French page. Another problem is that two languages could claim the same page name. I think it is not true in this case, but we could imagine that in Catalan, it could be also written "accueil principal". --Kip 09:07, 5 July 2012 (CEST)
You had written about this problem before, I forgot. I suppose if two languages use the same name for a page, they can be disambiguated like it is done on the Wikipedia (for different concepts having the same name), using a /xx language code extension for example. But I wonder, maybe the Polyglot extension is more trouble than it is worth. On the Wikipedia, I guess many of the minor language versions must be housed on a single server and these Wikis can all maintain their own language and also have connections to each other via interwiki links. These links are usually maintained by batch processes (bots). So, if those Wikis can coexist on a single server and have their own language for the interface, can't the same solution be applied here? Or is it that your server does not have enough memory/processing power? I am just trying to think of an organizational scheme such that page names are properly internationalized for the Omegawiki. --InfoCan 17:12, 5 July 2012 (CEST)
Installing several wikis would be too complicated, and as you pointed out, I think the memory of the server is not sufficient. We would also have to maintain the interwiki links on each wiki, and I think our community is too small for that.
I have allowed Polyglot to work on category pages
And, btw, wfPolyglotFollowRedirects is already set to true. --Kip 19:22, 5 July 2012 (CEST)
Thanks. --InfoCan 21:55, 5 July 2012 (CEST)

new subject[edit]

Hi Kip, could you add "construction" among the subject choices please? It is needed for entries like Expression:mortise or Expression:putlog. --InfoCan 16:02, 9 July 2012 (CEST)

Just to make sure: can you confirm that you have seen that we have "architecture" but think that "construction" is also needed? (just answer shortly, no need for a long argument, it is just to make sure that you've seen "architecture" ;-) ) --Kip 19:08, 9 July 2012 (CEST)
No long argument, okay, I'll restrain myself :-) . I did see architecture, and have used it. I just think that for some words "construction" is more appropriate. Most other dictionaries distinguish between the two also. --InfoCan 19:21, 9 July 2012 (CEST)
alles klar! Done! :-) --Kip 19:30, 9 July 2012 (CEST)
I don't see it under Annotations:Option values:subject ? --InfoCan 16:53, 11 July 2012 (CEST)
Oh I do, it appears as "building". Never mind. Thanks. --InfoCan 16:54, 11 July 2012 (CEST)

problem with transclusion[edit]

On Visual:Index, clicking on the bicycle pictures takes me to visual:bicycle, but clicking on the world map takes me to File:800px-Continents by colour.svg.png. I don't understand... --InfoCan 23:33, 10 July 2012 (CEST)

The underscores where missing in the url. See diff. --Kip 10:48, 11 July 2012 (CEST)
Thanks. --InfoCan 16:55, 11 July 2012 (CEST)

Interlanguage links in the left column?[edit]

Hi Kip. I was thinking of a way to make English not be the favored language of Omegawiki page names (I assume that is a long term goal, isn't it?). I have an idea, but could you confirm whether MediaWiki software allows it? On the Wikipedia, when you enter an interwiki link such as [[fr:Aide:Sommaire]], the software converts that link to with the label "Français". I am guessing that the system is configured such that a wikilink containing a string such as fr: is placed in the left navigation column, and the string 'fr:' gets to be substituted with the string '' . If so, on MediaWiki, is it possible to configure the software such that any link that start with (for example) 'fr:' is placed on the left column with a "Français" label, but with no other subtitution. For example, on the Visual:bicycle page, you could write [[fr:Visual:bicyclette]] and this would result in a "Français" label in the left navigation column linking to Visual:bicyclette. If more than one language use the same word, then you would need to disambiguate the page title of course, for example, [[ca:Visual:bicicleta (ca)]], [[es:Visual:bicicleta (es)]]. If this arrangement were possible, you wouldn't need to have page names like Visual:bicycle/fr. The "interlanguage" links would need to be entered manually, but there aren't so many of them really. The advantage would be that pages would be named in their own language. Is this idea feasible? --InfoCan 16:32, 16 July 2012 (CEST)

Maybe it is feasible ( ) I am not sure, it would need some testing.
We would still have the problem that language links would need to be on each page, but maybe this can be solved with a template containing the interwiki links of a page (so that we include the template in each page, and edit the template to add a new language link).
A remaining problem is the translation of namespace names. There is$wgNamespaceAliases , but I don't know how this cope with hundreds of languages. --Kip 17:20, 16 July 2012 (CEST)
My idea *is* for creating language links on each page. If my guess is correct, by configuring MediaWiki, it should be possible to type a link like [[fr:Visual:bicyclette]] to create a language link ("Français") that links to Visual:bicyclette. --InfoCan 17:37, 16 July 2012 (CEST)
I understood that, but you would still have to add [[fr:Visual:bicyclette]] to each other language page.
So... I think it is feasible, to keep in mind for later. I have other things to try at the moment. --Kip 09:39, 17 July 2012 (CEST)
OK, I hope this will get done one day  :-). For the record, I want to mention that having to add [[fr:Visual:bicyclette]] to all other pages is not a problem right now, because there are very few such pages. Even in the future when there may be ~200 versions of any one page, the maintenance of the interlanguage links can be done by a bot, the way interwiki links are done on the Wikipedia right now. It is enough to enter the 'en:' link and by the next morning a bot would have added all the other interwiki links. (I am not arguing here, just envisioning how the system might work.) --InfoCan 17:37, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

Related term, etc.[edit]

  • How do you add the annotation "related term"? the term "foot" has it, "hand" does not, I can't see what makes the difference.
  • What is the difference between "part of theme" and "is part of theme"?

--InfoCan 21:46, 16 July 2012 (CEST)

"Related term" (which comes from Gemet) was used some years ago, but then we decided to stop using it, because it is too vague, since it does not say how the terms are related, so that it is very much subjective whether you consider two terms as related. Annotations that were there were not deleted, but it is not possible to add new ones (for "foot", you cannot add a related term either). Instead, we introduced "hypernyms", "hyponyms", "holonyms", etc.
I never noticed that we had both "part of theme" and "is part of theme". I think both have been disabled now since we introduced the "subject" annotation with a controlled list. I guess that "part of theme" is what we imported from Gemet, and "is part of theme" is what we created to have the same effect.
So, in most cases, you can just delete them, or replace them with hypernyms (as in "foot" is part of theme "body") or other relations. --Kip 09:39, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

Thanks. I have a related question. How do you enter new annotation attributes for members of a class. Hypothetically, for "class:body parts", if I wanted to add "is neighbor of", could I do it, or is this something that only you can do? --InfoCan 17:43, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

It is restricted to bureaucrats. However, I should make it visible by all what kind of attributes exist.
It used to be editable by anyone, but it happened several times that people came, added annotations that they thought were useful, or just for testing, without discussing it with the community, and then later on left the project, so that we were left with some annotations which we don't know what they are meant to be.
Or in some other cases, useful annotations were added, but of the wrong type (for example it was not obvious that etymology should be the annotation type called "translatable text").
To enforce community discussion, I (despotically) decided to restrict it to bureaucrats. It is just a bit a pity because mostly I trust people (assume good faith ;) ) and most annotations that are added are self-explanatory and would not need community discussion.
In case you feel frustrated and want to become a bureaucrat: we have no rule about when one can become a bureaucrat, and actually I've no idea what such rules would be ;-). The current bureaucrats are people that were here at the beginning. I think only me and Tosca are active now, so this group should be extended some day. --Kip 19:52, 17 July 2012 (CEST)
I am not frustrated for the moment but if you have a need for "spare" bureaucrat, I could help. In general I have no problem with starting community discussions (or consulting with you ;-) ), so it is not a big deal for me. Actually, I am toying with the idea of expanding the set of relation annotations for anatomical terms in a similar fashion to how it is done at the Anatomy Dictionary, the site which I had once mentioned to you. --InfoCan 15:56, 18 July 2012 (CEST)

Small image?[edit]

Expression:philtrum is not showing the Commons image. Maybe it is because the image has small dimensions? --InfoCan 17:50, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

Yes, the image width should be at least 200 pixels. (this is even mentioned on the help page Help:Image_from_Commons#Properties_of_the_image )
The technical reason is that the image is "reduced" to 200 pixels width before being displayed. In fact, the reduction is done by the Commons server, and OmegaWiki merely asks the Commons server if a 200 pixel-width version is available (sometimes it is already stored there, sometimes it is generated on the fly). If the image is smaller than 200, Commons does have enlarged versions available. Checking the image size, and displaying the original size if smaller than 200 is of course possible, but I did not find an easy way to implement that. --Kip 19:52, 17 July 2012 (CEST)
I loaded a 201x201 px version of the same image to Commmons but it is still not displayed here. --InfoCan 21:39, 17 July 2012 (CEST)
Now it is... --InfoCan 21:44, 17 July 2012 (CEST)

new translatable texts groups?[edit]

I think there is a need to add example sentence and usage notes to the SynTrans translatable texts groups. Fiable has created an entry, Expression:яах, that seems to require such fields. --InfoCan 22:00, 24 July 2012 (CEST)

usage notes => I thought it was translatable already... indeed, it is like etymology and would need to be converted to translatable texts.
example sentence => What is needed is a more complex system, because you can have e.g.
"word" with example sentence "There are many words in a dictionary"
You would translate the example sentence to French "Il y a beaucoup de mots dans un dictionnaires".
But this translated sentence would need to be attached to the French translation "mot" (and its English translation would be also available)
and the same example sentence could be attached for example to words like "many" or "dictionary".
So we need something like a separate namespace and a dedicated system.
This is what we discussed here Meta:International_Beer_Parlour#Alternative_organization_for_Example_Sentence. --Kip 10:36, 25 July 2012 (CEST)


Bonjour. Tu as indiqué "Notre-Seigneur" comme synonyme de "Dieu". Je ne connais pas d'exemple où "Notre-Seigneur" soit synonyme de "Dieu". À ma connaissance, en français (et contrairement à l'équivalent occitan), il s'agit toujours de Jésus Christ, jamais de la Trinité. Connais-tu de tels exemples où "Notre-Seigneur" veuille dire simplement "Dieu", sans autre précision ? Cordialement. 10:17, 28 July 2012 (CEST)

Non, tu as raison, je corrige. --Kip 15:12, 28 July 2012 (CEST)


Merci beaucoup pour la correction des bugs 38739 et 36810. 11:05, 9 August 2012 (CEST)


Bonjour. Je suggère que tu ajoute un exemple pour rendre plus claire la différence entre DefinedMeaning:malheureusement_(384950) et DefinedMeaning:malheureusement_(384953) qui ne me parait pas très claire, vu que les traductions sont les mêmes en anglais, en français et en espagnol, à l'exception de "malencontreusement", qui n'apparait que dans le 1er DM. 12:05, 14 August 2012 (CEST)

Je t'accorde que les définitions ne sont pas terribles, je vais voir pour les améliorer. Il semble que j'ai pris les définitions de (en fait du Littré), mais pour l'instant je n'arrive pas à inventer une phrase d'exemple où la différence entre les deux saute aux yeux. Je vais réfléchir encore (à moins que tu n'aies une idée ?). --Kip 13:57, 14 August 2012 (CEST)
Malheureusement, Paul est probablement parti.
Probablement, Paul est malheureusement parti.
--InfoCan 14:26, 14 August 2012 (CEST)

Slow response[edit]

Hi Kip. The more DMs are associated with an expression, the longer time it takes to add an additional one. I find the wait rather frustrating, it actually discourages me from adding extra DMs to an expression. In most cases I don't need to change an existing DM, I just want to create a new one, but it can take a minute before I can enter anything. Is there any chance you might change the interface such that when creating a new DM the old DMs are not displayed for editing? --InfoCan 14:20, 14 August 2012 (CEST)

That's something I'd like to do, but I've not yet found how to program that efficiently (I mean given the current php code which is rather complex).
As a workaround, you could add the DM by starting with the Turkish word, or an English word with less synonyms.
Also, note that if you are using Chrome, you could try Firefox instead. I've noticed that Firefox is considerably faster in loading the page, because it seems that Chrome takes a long time to treat the java routines of OW. In the next upgrade (which will be full of bugs...), I've converted many java functions to jQuery, which I hope will work faster with Chrome. --Kip 18:30, 14 August 2012 (CEST)
Try this to your common.js
// "Add new DM" tab on expression pages
if ( wgCanonicalNamespace == 'Expression' ) {
 // Add a link to the actions menu
 addPortletLink( 'p-cactions', wgArticlePath.replace( '$1', 'index.php?title=' + encodeURIComponent(wgPageName) + '&action=edit&explang=-1' ), 'Add New DM');
When you save, the DM is saved, but you'll be taken back to an empty edit page (so you can add even more DMs). To find the DMs that were saved, go back to the "view" mode (not edit).
It's just a dirty hack, so I won't make it public for now. --Kip 19:18, 14 August 2012 (CEST)
Thanks, indeed, the page loads very fast now. I'll try using it tomorrow.
I already was using Firefox.
--InfoCan 20:05, 14 August 2012 (CEST)


Is there a way to use perl to add data to the database using a bot? Hiong3-eng5 10:21, 16 August 2012 (CEST)

No but we can work something together, I am planning to write a functional api (The current one is broken). What functionality would you need? (e.g. add translations, add annotations, ...?) --Kip 10:27, 16 August 2012 (CEST)
I was thinking that a bot would be useful to rapidly transfer translations from the Wiktionary. I envision copying a set of translations for one particular meaning of an expression form there and entering it into the perl script, along with the URL for the corresponding Omegawiki DM. The bot would then parse the input translations into words, languages and gender and enter them into the SynTrans list of the indicated DM. If you could provide basic functionality into the API to enable this particular use case, OmegaWiki would catch up with Wiktionary pretty fast. --InfoCan 11:12, 16 August 2012 (CEST)
If it is possible, can we compile dictionary files into an SQLite database (portable database) that we can submit to OmegaWiki (which can be deleted after it is processed). though a certain table, a script can process the database to add data to the omegawiki database. It would be easier for me to create such a database with my limited but enough perl scripting experience. If this is possible, then anyone who can create a script in any language will be able to create such a database for processing or any one who know how to add data to SQLite can do so too.
Hiong3-eng5 06:54, 17 August 2012 (CEST)
I have two csv files. One has expression_id and language_id to add expressions. the other is has expression_id, language_id and defined_meaning_id to add expressions to a defined meaning. Where can I send the file for processing? Hiong3-eng5 (talk) 06:27, 22 January 2013 (CET)
Sent you an e-mail. --Kip (talk) 10:24, 22 January 2013 (CET)


Hi, I tried to delete the page, but can not find any delete button. So I just attached and blanked the page. Hiong3-eng5 10:29, 16 August 2012 (CEST)

If you are using the Vector skin (default), the button is in the drop-down box that appears when you put your mouse over the arrow, between the star and the search box. --Kip 11:00, 16 August 2012 (CEST)
thanks, I found it. Hiong3-eng5 06:39, 17 August 2012 (CEST)

Drop down menus[edit]

Hi Kip, could you please add a blank line to all drop-down menus? When I open one of these menus by mistake (or cannot find any relevant choice), I cannot close it without having to make a selection. --InfoCan 17:12, 28 August 2012 (CEST)

There is a button "Clear" for that purpose (just before the buttons "prev, next" in the combobox). --Kip 10:06, 29 August 2012 (CEST)
It is not present under: SynTrans Annotation->Option values. Once I click on "usage", the clear option is no longer available. Same thing for DM annotation -> Option values. Once I click on "subject", the clear option is not available. --InfoCan 14:58, 29 August 2012 (CEST)
Ok, I will see what I can do. In the meantime, you can just use the clear on the first column (to clear "usage" or "subject"), it will work, even if the second column still shows a value. --Kip 10:32, 30 August 2012 (CEST)

Subject: legal[edit]

Could you please add Subject:legal to the Annotations? --InfoCan 17:15, 28 August 2012 (CEST)

legal is an adjective, I think it's better to have a noun => "law" ? DefinedMeaning:law_(science)_(2117). --Kip 10:07, 29 August 2012 (CEST)
Fine, "law" then. Thanks. --InfoCan 14:59, 29 August 2012 (CEST)
Done. --Kip 10:34, 30 August 2012 (CEST)

Où reporter les bugs[edit]

Bonjour. Tu as écrit le 2006-08-18 : "It's better now to use to report bugs instead of this page." et cette instruction est toujours là depuis 6 ans. Moi, j'obéis. En plus, un bugzilla a l'avantage de gérer les bugs: c'est fait pour ça. On peut aisément les ranger, les tagger, les fermer, se mettre en copie etc.. Ceci dit, je ne vois pas de grave inconvénient à changer la règle. 11:57, 29 August 2012 (CEST)

Ah oui c'est le moi d'il y a 6 ans qui a écrit ça, j'avais oublié cette instruction, alors toutes mes excuses.
En fait, je n'ai rien contre bugzilla per se, mais c'est surtout pratique quand plusieurs programmeurs collaborent en même temps (en 2006, je n'étais pas encore programmeur d'OmegaWiki, mais il y avait 2 autres personnes). Aujourd'hui, il n'y a plus que moi qui programme, et je ne reçois pas de notification quand un nouveau bug est ajouté sur Bugzilla. Les autres contributeurs d'OmegaWiki ne consultent pas non plus les bugs de bugzilla. En revanche sur le wiki, beer parlour ou insect room, j'ai les pages en suivi. --Kip 10:21, 30 August 2012 (CEST)

incorrect red links?[edit]

The page Portal:tur/En sık kullanılan 1000 Türkçe sözcük has a list of most common Turkish words. Some of the links are red although they shouldn't be. Is this a bug? --InfoCan 23:53, 29 August 2012 (CEST)

Yes it is a bug, but I do not know why it is caused. There is a script that I run from time to time to correct the bug. Should be fixed now (you might need to "action=purge" the page, or edit-save, to see the blue links). --Kip 10:37, 30 August 2012 (CEST)

subject: military[edit]

  • It seems to me the annotation subject "armed forces" would be better renamed with the broader term "military". --InfoCan 16:02, 31 August 2012 (CEST)
  • Could you please add annotation subject:textile (for weft and warp)? --InfoCan 17:17, 1 September 2012 (CEST)
    • done --Kip 18:35, 3 September 2012 (CEST)


Hi Kipcool,

I'm interested in contributing to this wiki. Could you assign me to the wikidata-omega user group, so that I can modify the existing Wikidata, please? Greetings, Vogone 03:04, 14 September 2012 (CEST)


Hi Kip. Could you please add "physiology" to the subjects listing? I need it for some of the recent entries I made. --InfoCan 22:35, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

And also, add "obsolete" to the usage listing? (For the term "neurolymph" for example)--InfoCan 16:33, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

And "rare" too? (for "cyprine" for example) --InfoCan 16:35, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

  • Added "physiology". I don't know if it could be considered as a subgroup of anatomy. In any case, it would be nice if you could addit in Help:Topic and maybe add (a short explanation? and) an example of a word that would be classified as "anatomy" and another word that would be in "physiology".
  • "obsolete": I think we have already. It is called "disused" DefinedMeaning:obsolete_(483495). If you agree that it is the same, please just add "obsolete" as a synonym in this DM.
  • "rare": we miss a definition of Expression:rare (in fact we miss all the definitions of "rare" in English). The Wiktionary defines rare as "very uncommon ; scarce" (so, a list of synonyms...) and "uncommon" as "rare; not readily found; unusual". Maybe "not readily found" could be a definition? or "very uncommon"? --Kip 18:24, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Done. By the way, can you give me some examples of words with the subject "Trade"? I wasn't sure what is meant. Business? artisanat? --InfoCan 19:46, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

I think it is more in the meaning of "business", but I'll look it up in the database to be sure. --Kip 11:09, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
  • Added "rare".
  • Regarding "trade", actually there is no word with the subject "trade". So, if you don't think it is useful, we can just remove it. I also see in the database that it was removed at some point and put back, but neither the removed one, or the current active one, were used. --Kip 13:09, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

Let's then remove "trade" and replace it with "business". Could you also add "slang" to usage choices please (for "biffeton", for example)? --InfoCan 04:31, 26 October 2012 (CEST)

Done both. Probably the definition of slang DefinedMeaning:slang_(6848) could be improved, but it is this kind of words that I don't really know how to define. --Kip 16:10, 26 October 2012 (CEST)


Hi Kip. When entering a Canadian French expression ("balançoire à bascule"), do I choose the language as "French (Canada)" or "French" with area="Canada" ? --InfoCan 22:24, 27 October 2012 (CEST)

You choose the one you like best ;). In the long term, the idea is to use area="Canada", because it is in fact only one language (French), and if a French word is used in Canada and Belgium, it makes more sense to add two areas, than to add two words of two different languages.
However, for the moment, because annotations are hidden, "French (Canada)" is more visible than area="Canada", which is why I have not disabled the option. "area=" is also still experimental, but it seems to work fine. When the annotations will be more visible, I'll automatically move the "French (Canada)" to area="Canada". --Kip 10:42, 28 October 2012 (CET)

missing interlanguage links[edit]

Hi. Do you know why Visual:bicycle, Visual:bicycle/fr, and Visual:bicycle/tr do not show the links to the other language versions of the same page, such as Visual:bicycle/bu? --InfoCan 19:44, 20 November 2012 (CET)

It is because the page is loaded from cache (server cache, not the cache of your browser) instead of being regenerated. There are various solutions to refresh the cache:
--Kip 20:27, 20 November 2012 (CET)

Thanks. By the way, are you able to make the system cache be refreshed on a daily basis? The "word of the day" on the main page appears unchanged for several days if you are not logged in. --InfoCan 16:51, 21 November 2012 (CET)

I already searched how to change that some time ago, but never found the correct variable to change (if there is one). --Kip 18:50, 21 November 2012 (CET)

Language Main Pages[edit]

Bonjour Kip,

I noticed that some specific MainPage/xx are deleted e.g. the one in Dutch by "Guess Who" ;-? and the one in Italian is a wee bit "retarded".
Wouldn't it be better to make things more consistent? Klaas V 11:21, 19 December 2012 (CET)
You got it wrong :P
The Dutch Main page Meta:Main_Page/nl was deleted by GerardM. I only deleted Meta:Main_Page/nld which was a redirect to that page.
What I do is put an "outdated" banner on top of the page, like Meta:Main_Page/it. Then it is up to the contributors of that language to decide if they want to update the page, or are ok with an old page in their language, or prefer to see it uptodate but in English (in which case you have to delete the page - what Gerard did).
As a summary: you are welcome to update the Dutch main page :-) --Kip 12:35, 19 December 2012 (CET)
Fair enough :-) If I would have enough time... Now for something completely different

Just got following error message in Google Chrome Versione 23.0.1271.101 (I never liked it, but it's good to test in more browsers, right?) under Mac OSX 10.6.8 Build 10K549

Fatal error: Call to undefined method ObjectAttributeValuesEditor::getDisplayHeader() in /var/www/ow/extensions/Wikidata/OmegaWiki/Editor.php on line 1866
Klaas V 14:54, 19 December 2012 (CET)

Yeah I know, I was upgrading and debugging. The error should be gone now. --Kip 14:58, 19 December 2012 (CET)
I took rhe most easy and fast road. Deleted Main/it. Problem solved. If anyone feels it;s necessary to translate let them feel free, very Wiki ;-) Klaas V 10:49, 21 December 2012 (CET)


Hi Kip,

Do you want me to add your (User or real ) name on our TwitterHomePage?

Please mail me a.s.a.p. if the answer is yes and how you want to be credited Klaas  V 10:34, 21 December 2012 (CET)

No, I am not especially looking for credit. And I am not sure how you would do that on Twitter, as I am not familiar with Twitter. Maybe an idea would be to provide a link to the International beer parlour, in case a twitter "fan" has some question about our project? --Kip (talk) 22:15, 21 December 2012 (CET)
Great idea! There is a link to the Main page. Instead of any name I can provide the link to the beer parlour. Done.

See TwitterHome of OmegaWiki Klaas V 13:13, 22 December 2012 (CET)

This looks good, thanks! --Kip (talk) 21:36, 22 December 2012 (CET)

Changing title of Defined Meaning[edit]

Bonjour, Kip

I tried this:

Apparently the religionspecific Zalig is still there :-( Can you change 'Zalig' to the ideology neutral adjective (and closer to the English 'merry') Vrolijk ?

Merci beaucoup in advance,

  • Buone Feste,
Klaas V 16:30, 23 December 2012 (CET)
I can't change it, but in the future, DM page titles will be only number, to solve that issue. --Kip (talk) 18:23, 23 December 2012 (CET)
Great! Perpetual improvement is what it's all about. In Dutch we say: Goed bezig, Kip; ga zo door en gi‌j zult spinazie eten. Buon anno 'Klaas V 13:01, 31 December 2012 (CET)