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Meta:International Beer Parlour

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Finding languages on WMF-sites here and vice versa[edit]

I do my best to do updates when I can on Wikidata from us (and/or vice versa) about words I tweet about. Sometimes less easy than one would expect. Probably because we went our own way?
Example Breton:

Collection
ISO 639-3 codes bre
ISO 639-1-codes br
ISO 639-6 codes bre

Wikipedia in Breton language. There seem to be some dialects as well. Wrong example, bc can be found by looking down in the list of Wikidata which is on ISO639-order while we use order of full name. Perhaps I ask them to change. Better not, bc on many Wikipedias they introduced already a short list with for me too few useful ones :-( Have to change everywhere one by one to full list as it always was :-(  Klaas `Z4␟` V:  17:48, 9 February 2017 (CET)

Namespace MediaWiki[edit]

See Aboutsite for an example of these tiny pages. What is (supposed to be?) the function of this namespace?  Klaas `Z4␟` V:  08:22, 22 June 2017 (CEST)

It stores the system messages and their translations http://www.omegawiki.org/Special:AllMessages
For example MediaWiki:Aboutsite and MediaWiki:Aboutsite/fra appears at the bottom links of each page. --Kip (talk) 10:23, 23 June 2017 (CEST)
Note that these pages have a default value provided by Mediawiki, so most of them are red, but with a message in it. The page is created only when we want something else than the default.
Ok, thanks for this clear explanation, Kip.  Klaas `Z4␟` V:  08:46, 25 June 2017 (CEST)

Mandarin - word of the day[edit]

Hi, mi daughter is not so much interested in English ;-) (well my son cares about the word of the day in English on FB) but she loves all that is Chinese and there she is particularly interested in Mandarin. She wants to create pictures, much better ones than I do for Neapolitan :-D, where one can start to learn some Mandarin. Who of our users would have some time to help with proof-reading terminology groups (let's say for 100 words to start off with)? Maybe there would also be the possibility to record these words in order to be able to learn pronunciation? - Any suggestion on how to go about this would be great. Thank you!!!! --Sabine (talk) 19:20, 1 August 2017 (CEST)

With feeling (read: ears) for Dutch perhaps nǐ hǎo is an idea to start with? #dta  Klaas `Z4␟` V:  08:22, 3 August 2017 (CEST)
Well, my son works on the English Word of the Day on Facebook, but my daughter wants Mandarin ... sic ... Dutch, well it is not so difficult to do it, if we could get an automated way. The other day I thought that maybe we could try to get a free professional account on hootsuite.com for omegawiki where we can upload words to be published on FB, Twitter etc. on various channels ... because if that was possible, we could easily use the UIDs to create the links and work with a list of approx. 2000 words I created quite a bunch of years ago for a translation marathon for International Mother Language Day. I am often thinking about that, because actually I do not have the time to do this in "real time" and I am really happy that my son at least cares about English. I am about to launch a WOTD for Neapolitan mainly on Instagram, but this has a marketing scope. I am going to publish books in that language and so ... I should also check all Neapolitan entries here - it's on my todo, but there is that 24 hours a day issue ... - Still there must be a way to combine things IMHO. --Sabine (talk) 08:07, 7 August 2017 (CEST)
I have some basic Mandarin knowledge, if that helps... I could try the proof-reading...
Pronunciations, there are a few on wikimedia commons https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Chinese_pronunciation , this would be also the place to store them for omegawiki since that is what we use for audio.
Otherwise, the contributor that can help is User:Hiong3.eng5. I can reach him by e-mail if needed. --Kip (talk) 22:23, 8 August 2017 (CEST)
I will talk with my daughter about this. She is not as stable in doing things like Marco does. Well ... he is more kind of a real life person, while she is more an artist. To get things done it sometimes takes ages ... thank you !!! --Sabine (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2017 (CEST)

Thoughts about searches[edit]

I am a translator, like many of you know, and I have been working with the development team of OmegaWiki from the very beginning (the past years quite some less due to my life changing a lot). I edited quite some stuff here, but I hardly ever use OmegaWiki for my terminology researches. It is somewhat time consuming for me when I work. OmegaWiki for me is more kind of a container ... weird ... now I was considering which websites I do acutally use and my favourite ones are http://www.linguee.de for English and http://dict.leo.org for Italian. I suppose it is the UI of the results that is better for me to work with. There I immediately get a number of possible translations and I immediately see which one of them to use, because actually I do already know the translation. Very often it just does not come to mind. I have to look deeper into that, but would like to know your experiences.--Sabine (talk) 08:18, 7 August 2017 (CEST)

Hi, I have a similar experience.
I use leo.org for English and German, and wordreference.com for English and Spanish.
I was also thinking about reusing omegawiki data in other, faster, interfaces. If you extract subsets of omegawiki for bilingual dictionary, it can be actually quite fast. wordreference.com has a nice structure where it uses wordreference.com/enfr for translation from english to french, wordreference.com/fren from french to english, and we can imagine as many bilingual dictionaries as useful.
We already have the possibility to export bilingual dictionary data from omegawiki.
I own a dedicated server where I can do some experiences.
I plan to do some programming, but that is usually in Autumn/Winter (from October to March). I will use a cross-platform language which means the same code will give a html website and an android application (and many other possibilties). that's the plan but atm I have one hand to type and the other to prevent baby from typing his own creativity... --Kip (talk) 22:37, 8 August 2017 (CEST)
That sounds great. From october on I am starting to give Italian lessons and I am preparing the ABC-Book for Neapolitan (also other stuff for Neapolitan is planned). I am right now working in a spreadsheet again which is somewhat ... uhmmm ... but it is faster. I was considering to use an export ENG-NAP-ITA-DEU via the interface used for Destinazione Italia (at the time we worked on it), but still, we do not have a lot of Neapolitan terminology in here. Maybe adding the IDs of the single defined meanings in English makes sense, so at least we could sooner or later import the material. hmmmm ... sorry, but I am somewhat confused about which way to definitely go. I always get back to OW since much has been done and we could/should do much more. Going ahead with my terminology here for now ... --Sabine (talk) 07:51, 16 August 2017 (CEST)

Varnish cache[edit]

I just installed a Varnish cache manager on OmegaWiki.

It is supposed to make things faster. It is what they use on the Wikipedia. The effect might take a few days to be noticeable, until a sufficient number of pages is added to the cache.

I think it is only active for IP users, so that registered used don't get a cached version, but a fresh version of each page. Not sure. In any case, if it is faster for IP users, then that makes more resources available for registered users.

So:

  • The good news is, it still works apparently :) Report anything broken please.
  • Please report anything slower than usual. Varnish cache takes some memory and is an additional layer, so it could worsen things, if I set it up badly (it's my first time with Varnish)
  • If you notice anything faster, it is also good to know.

--Kip (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2017 (CEST)

Some repairs and upgrades[edit]

If you noticed a downtime today, it is because I tried to repair the Visual dictionary Visual:Index.

InstantCommons was broken (to automatically get images from commons) and that led to upgrading both php and apache. It didn't go exactly as planned ;)

Now seems to be working somehow, but the new version of php needs an upgrade of Mediawiki, which I am doing now. To be continued... --Kip (talk) 21:38, 3 November 2017 (CET)

I just upgraded to MediaWiki 1.27. Not the latest version but the long term release.
Seems to work,
No new functionality, except that the Visual dictionary Visual:Index is working again.
Please report any new bug / strange behaviour. --Kip (talk) 15:51, 5 November 2017 (CET)

"Translated text attribute"[edit]

Hello. What is supposed to be in the field "Translated text attribute"? Fiable.biz (talk)

Hi, currently there is only "etymology" and "usage note", because e.g. for a French word you can write its etymology in French but also in English, etc.
These two annotations are available at syntrans level (so-called "lexical annotations"), i.e. at the top of the page when you edit an Expression: page, or in the annotation column of synonyms-translations.
There is no "Translated text attribute" at DM level (so-called "semantic annotations"), so it appears empty there. --Kip (talk) 12:27, 14 April 2018 (CEST)
I added the etymology of "Expression:etymology", in French and English. --Kip (talk) 12:35, 14 April 2018 (CEST)

Adding links to Omegawiki to Wikidata[edit]

From a spot check, most definedmeanings here link to relevant wikidata IDs, but the reverse is not true; only a small number have return links via P1245. Is there a script or labs tool that helps add these IDs to wikidata? Sj (talk) 22:56, 3 May 2018 (CEST)

Indeed we currently have 10144 (of our 50509 concepts) that are linked to Wikidata. We use that mostly to link to the relevant wikipedia page when it is available.
I don't know wikidata scripts or lab tools. I think GerardM would know the best, unfortunately (for us) he now put all his energy into wikidata and de facto left Omegawiki.

--Kip (talk) 21:00, 4 May 2018 (CEST)

I never looked into WikiData ... and I also forgot many things about OmegaWiki ... but maybe the group is a way to get people to help? How to add an OmegaWiki link to Wikidata? Hmmm ... Sabine (talk)
I use Wikidata a lot doing - among other actions like manually adding descriptions sometimes from here - the contrary. What you asked, Sj would be a lot easier if our request we made five years ago to join WMF would be accepted and made official.

External links[edit]

 Klaas `Z4␟` V:  07:52, 12 September 2018 (CEST)

Change User Name[edit]

Huh ... I am wondering if it is possible to change my user name - I got married so it is really weird for me to see "SabineCretella" up there ... or should I create another user and simply give me all rights? -- Sabine (talk)

It is possible, and also the best solution, to change your user name.
I installed the extension for this. As a bureaucrat you can do it yourself there: http://www.omegawiki.org/Special:RenameUser . --Kip (talk) 20:55, 10 May 2018 (CEST)
It worked !!!!! Thank you! Yay ... ok, hopefully I will be able to do what I am planning to do ... let's see :-))) --Sabine (talk)
Cool! I did the same to get a name I have on practically all WMF-sites as well. KlaasZ4usV as my sig already shows:  Klaas `Z4␟` V:  22:03, 22 May 2018 (CEST)

Expression:animal - please have a look[edit]

Hi, there are two definitions for the substantive that are in the end the same. Should we keep it? If so: all translations may be copied there. animal--Sabine (talk) 06:54, 14 January 2019 (CET)

Hi, I think it is on purpose,
one definition is all animals, including humans (so, the biological/scientific definition)
the other definitions is for animals, excluding humans (so, a rather anthropocentric/philosophical definition)
this distinction is also made in other dictionaries, such as https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/animal (see definitions 1 and 2a).
--Kip (talk) 21:42, 14 January 2019 (CET)
OK, thanks :-) --Sabine (talk) 07:31, 15 January 2019 (CET)

Semi-automatic import from Wikidata[edit]

Hi, I am considering creating a script that would allow semi-automatic import from Wikidata (it imports the list automatically, but the user would need to have a quick look at it to see if something seems wrong, and then click on save).

It would work a bit like the semi-automatic import script for Wiktionary (anyone has it? / uses it?), but a bit simpler to use since we don't need to manually copy/paste wikicode. Simply enter a Wikidata ID as we already do, and then there would be a button "import translations". Then the user sees what has been imported, and also has information of what was not imported and why (e.g. language unknown, or translation for that language already there).

From what I have seen, the translations at Wikidata are mostly ok. I propose to use the column "label" and "also known as". I just noticed that sometimes, words are capitalized when they shouldn't be.

So my question is this: do you also consider the translations from Wikidata ok. Did you already do some manual import of it, and did you notice anything that we should pay attention to if I make that script? --Kip (talk) 22:12, 12 February 2019 (CET)

Many times descriptions (our DefinedMeaning) are wrong or missing so I have to update them manually. Translations in general are ok. Many times I copied them manually. Such a tool helps a lot! #tia Kip. I never used a script to copy from Wiktionary; I rarely visit the Dutch Wiktionary, other languages even less. Greetings & salutations, Klaas `Z4␟` V:  12:31, 14 February 2019 (CET)
Ok well for the wiktionary script, I thought I had made it available to all sysops but actually it is only available to me :p
It is a script that is made to work with the English Wiktionary (I have not adapted it to other wiktionaries, since they have less translations). If anyone is interested, tell me, I can easily make it available but I would have to write a small how-to-use page. --Kip (talk) 20:47, 14 February 2019 (CET)
Importing from Wiktionaries would be very interesting ... since a lot can be done without the help of too many people. :-))) -Sabine (talk) 20:22, 16 February 2019 (CET)
So I wrote a help page and made the tool available to all sysops.
Help:Semi-automatic import Wiktionary
It can be that you need to refresh you cache to see it (Ctrl+Shift+R to refresh).
I hope it helps :)
(This is for Wiktionary, not yet for Wikidata) --Kip (talk) 22:07, 16 February 2019 (CET)
Wow ... this stuff works ... and it helps a lot. -Sabine (talk) 22:59, 16 February 2019 (CET)


More on the "Wikidata" subject: I just realized that Wikidata also has links to OmegaWiki. For example the Wikidata ID for dog https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q144 has a link to the corresponding OW DM id. I don't know if it's one of use adding it there, or if it is somebody else. I also don't know if they reuse links that we have or if there are links that we could import. According to this page [1], Wikidata has somewhere between 500 and 1000 links to OW. On our side, we have a bit more than 10.000 links to Wikidata.

And also:

  • Wikidata has links to WordNet ID as well, and I was considering adding these to OW so that we can import translations from multilingual wordnet ( http://compling.hss.ntu.edu.sg/omw/ or http://globalwordnet.org/wordnets-in-the-world/ ) as well as relations (hypernyms, antonyms, etc.)
  • Wikidata also encodes some semantic relations that we might want to include in OW. For dog, there are relations such as "dog can be used as pet", "dog uses a dog bed", "a dog can bark", etc.

So there are actually some things that we can import with a bot. If I had time I could have some fun with this...

PS: And also I am a Wikidata entity https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q15411266 . It says I am human :) --Kip (talk) 21:21, 24 February 2019 (CET)

Since I added my first WikidataID to OmegaWiki today - it was not easy to find out where to add it, so I made some changes on Help:Wikidata_ID. Now I was looking at Wikidata and tried to figure out how to add the OmegaWiki-ID there ... no chance. Could we add this to our help section as well?
I would like to understand more about wordnet ... --Sabine (talk) 14:34, 27 February 2019 (CET)
I added a section about editing Wikidata, although I don't have much experience about it myself. --Kip (talk) 15:07, 27 February 2019 (CET)
I have made small cosmetic changes to the import script: the window now follows you when you scroll down, and you can also move it (e.g. if you drag it from the top). Kip.
I will try this out soon :-))) --Sabine (talk) 20:10, 27 February 2019 (CET)

WordNet[edit]

WordNet is originally an English language dictionary / ontology. It is, like us, based on concepts (they call it "synset" and it corresponds to our DefinedMeaning): all synonyms will share the same definition and will share the same relations (hypernym, hyponym, etc.) to the other words.

Now, while WordNet is only in English, there are many linguists around the world who developed WordNet for other languages, based on the original WordNet, i.e. reusing the same senses. The licenses vary http://globalwordnet.org/wordnets-in-the-world/ but most are open, and there are apparently more than 100 languages.

So if we link our DefinedMeaning to a WordNet Synset ID, it becomes possible to import translations from the various wordnets. --Kip (talk) 15:07, 27 February 2019 (CET)

Change name to OLPC Children's dictionary or create a new collection[edit]

So here I am with my next question: time ago we worked on the OLPC Chidren's dictionary. OLPC seems to be a dead project therefore we should or rename it or create simply a Children's dictionary, that is a new collection. For "historical reference" I would leave OLPC and create a new collection. I know where to create it, but I don't remember how to do it and what to change. Could we add the how-to to the help pages, please? That would be great! --Sabine (talk) 21:50, 17 February 2019 (CET)

I hope it helps Help:Adding a collection :) --Kip (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2019 (CET)
Don't know for OLPC, if it is better to start another Children's dictionary from scratch or to reuse that one. I don't know who used to add words to that collection. Probably I just will agree with you then :) --Kip (talk) 21:29, 18 February 2019 (CET)
Thank you! I will try this out tomorrow morning. I am talking with someone you might know. I will write more, as soon as I have news. --Sabine (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2019 (CET)

Wiktionaries on Icubator[edit]

In a translation break I just had a look at the wiktionaries on Incubator. Most of them had their last edit years ago. Maybe it would make sense to contact these people and tell them, that they can add their language here. Incubator is a place where people get stuck, they don't see development and so they stop working in their mother language. This could be a win-win situation for all. --Sabine (talk) 13:35, 3 March 2019 (CET)

I also noted that scn.wiktionary which I was asked to build many years ago, is basically dead ... --Sabine (talk) 13:39, 3 March 2019 (CET)
One could even argue that it is relatively easy (doable...) to create a Wiktionary from OmegaWiki. I mean if they start with OmegaWiki, add definitions, and later want to move on to a proper Wiktionary they can always export all data without loss. --Kip (talk) 10:03, 4 March 2019 (CET)
Indeed that would be an argument ... thank's for the hint :-) --Sabine (talk) 11:21, 4 March 2019 (CET)

CC0[edit]

I just changed our license to CC0.

This was what we wanted from the beginning (i.e. the closest possible to public domain), but CC0 did not exist at the time so we used other licenses that we found to be the most open. Words and translations cannot be copyrighted, and it is dubious whether definitions could, so anyway this is the license that makes sense. Only my javascripts could be copyrighted :P --Kip (talk) 21:32, 4 March 2019 (CET)

yesssss :-) --Sabine (talk) 21:54, 4 March 2019 (CET)